Minutes of the meeting

MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLENARY SESSION OF THE FORUM OF ASSOCIATIONS AND
COLLEGES OF TAX PROFESSIONALS
HELD ON JULY 2, 2019

President of the Forum of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals

Director General of the State Agency for Tax Administration

Mr. Jesus Gascon Catalan

Members representing the Tax Agency

Director of the Tax Management Department

Mr. Gonzalo David García de Castro

Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection

Mr. Javier Hurtado Puerta

Director of the Revenue Department

Mr. Guillermo Barros Gallego

Director of the Department of Aduanas and Excise Duties

Ms. Pilar Jurado Borrego

Director of the Tax Information Technology Department

Mr. Manuel Alfonso Castro Martínez

Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service

Mrs. Rosa Maria Prieto del Rey

Director of Legal Services

Mr. Diego Loma-Osorio Lerena

Special Delegate of Catalonia

Mr. Isidoro Garcia Millan

Members representing Associations and Colleges

Spanish Association of Tax Advisors

Director of the Study Office

Mr. Arturo Jimenez Contento

Member in charge of Studies and Research

Mr. Javier Gomez Taboada

Professional Association of Accounting and Tax Experts of Spain

Secretary of the Board of Directors

Mr. José Antonio Fernández García-Moreno

Member of the Board of Directors

Mr. Antonio Ibarra Lopez

General Council of the Spanish Bar Association

Vice-Dean of the Balearic Bar Association

Mr. Rafael Gil March

General Council of Colleges of Customs Agents and Brokers

Secretary of the Board

Mr. Manuel Lopez Frias

General Council of Colleges of Administrative Managers of Spain

Head of the Tax Department of the General Council

Ms. Pilar Otero Moar

General Council of Official Colleges of Social Graduates of Spain

Member of the Fiscal Affairs Committee

Mr. Jose Castaño Semitiel

Member of the Fiscal Affairs Committee

Ms. Alicia Rodriguez Milestones

Spanish Federation of Professional Associations of Tax Technicians and Tax Advisors

Chairperson

Mr. Joan Torres Torres

Second Vice President

Mr. Adolfo Jimenez Ramirez

Office of Administrative Managers and Tax Advisors

Lawyer

Mrs. Raquel Cobos Casero

Registry of Tax Advisors Economists

Vice President of the Board of Directors

Mr. Miguel Angel Ruiz Ayuso

Technical secretary

Mr. Luis del Amo Carbajo

Technical Secretariat of the Forum of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals

Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service

Mrs. Rosa Maria Prieto del Rey

In Madrid, on July 2, 2019, the fifteenth plenary meeting of the Forum of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals is held, attended by the people mentioned, and in accordance with the following

AGENDA

1. Opening by the Director General of the State Tax Administration Agency.

2. Approval of the minutes of the meeting held on November 27, 2018.

3. Submission to the Plenary of the consent for the approval by majority of the members of the texts of the Code of Good Practices of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals and the Code of Good Practices of Tax Professionals

4. Voting for the approval of the texts of:

   1. Code of Good Practices of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals and

   2. Code of Good Practices for Tax Professionals.

5. Information on the topics discussed in the working groups.

6. Other considerations, requests and questions.

1. Opening by the Director General of the State Agency for Tax Administration

The session was opened by Mr. Jesús Gascón Catalán, Director General of the State Tax Administration Agency and President of the Forum of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals, who, after thanking everyone for their attendance, reported that the Tax Agency is developing its strategic planning for the coming years and that the work is well advanced. He added that he had intended to make progress in this plenary session, but that, due to the situation of the legislature with a caretaker government, out of prudence, he has decided to postpone this matter. However, he points out that, given the importance of the issue, as it will mark the lines of action of the organization in the coming years, he does not rule out calling an extraordinary meeting of the plenary or including it in a working group.

Mr. Jesús Gascón then pointed out that the following topics are planned to be discussed in this plenary session: Firstly, the approval, where appropriate, of the minutes of the previous session; Secondly, the plenary session will be subject to consent for the approval by majority of the texts of the Code of Good Practices of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals and the Code of Good Practices of Tax Professionals; Thirdly, if consent has been obtained in the previous point, the approval of the texts of the Codes will be voted on; Fourthly, the matters discussed at the working group meetings will be reported on; And finally, the plenary session will end with a round of considerations, requests and questions.

2. Approval of the minutes of the meeting held on November 27, 2018

The President of the Forum gives the floor to Ms. Rosa María Prieto del Rey, Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service, who states that the minutes of the fourteenth plenary session were sent to the Associations and Colleges prior to this meeting and that no comments have been received so far. Addressing the attendees, he asks if anyone has any objections. Since none were formulated, the minutes of the 14th plenary session held on 27 November are hereby declared approved.

Finally, Ms. Rosa María Prieto informs that the minutes approved at this Plenary Session will be published on the Tax Agency's website, in the space reserved for this Forum.

3. Submission to the Plenary of the consent for the approval by majority of the members of the texts of the Code of Good Practices of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals and the Code of Good Practices of Tax Professionals

The Director General of the Tax Agency then moves on to the third point on the agenda and comments that the Codes of Good Practice have been analysed in depth at the meetings of the working groups and he wishes to recall a series of issues discussed at them:

• The main objective of the work has been to try to reconcile positions in order to overcome the deadlock that seemed to have been established in this matter.

• Only the vote included in point 4 of the agenda is subject to exemption from the consensus rule that governs this Forum.

• The approval of the texts of the Codes does not imply that the Association or College that has voted in favor is, in any way, committing to ratify them through its governing bodies.

• The texts are modifiable, once approved, if circumstances so advise or the parties so decide.

• The protocol for action to verify the correct application of the Codes is not developed in the current texts. The Taxpayer Protection Council has been asked to study it and it will either be incorporated into the text of the Codes if they are not approved at this meeting, or, if not, it will be incorporated later as an annex to them.

• Once approved, the texts will be published on the AEAT website and the form of instrumentation of the signatures will have to be established, that is, the level at which they will be signed by the Associations and Colleges will have to be determined and, in particular, whether the signature is also possible by the territorial bodies that, where appropriate, may exist in the Associations and Colleges. The Tax Agency is open to any of the possibilities, but would appreciate being informed.

• Given the open nature of the Codes and the possibility that, once the texts have been published, an entity without representation in this Forum could request membership, the Tax Agency would inform the Associations and Colleges represented in the Forum.

Mr. Jesús Gascón then reports that the representative of the General Council of Colleges of Administrative Managers of Spain had confirmed her attendance, but has not yet arrived, which suggests that there has been some incident. However, since twenty minutes have already passed since the session began, the third point on the agenda is read out and the consent for the approval by majority of the members of the texts of the Code of Good Practices of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals and the Code of Good Practices of Tax Professionals is submitted to the decision of the plenary session.

Subsequently, all the Associations and Colleges, as well as the Tax Agency, voted in favour of exempting the approval of the texts of the Codes from compliance with the consensus rule.

The Director General of the Tax Agency then moves on to the next point on the agenda.

4. Voting for the approval of the texts of:

1. Code of Good Practices of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals and

2. Code of Best Practices of Tax Professionals

The Director General reads the fourth point of the agenda and asks the Associations and Colleges to give their opinion, with the following result: Six Associations or Colleges, as well as the Tax Agency, voted in favour, the Spanish Association of Tax Advisors abstained and the General Council of the Spanish Bar Association voted against. The last two entities point out that their vote was motivated, fundamentally, by the fact that it could not be debated and approved internally. For his part, Mr. José Castaño Semitiel, representative of the General Council of Social Graduates of Spain, wishes to state, despite the fact that it is not put to a vote, that his Council does not agree with the Addendum. On the other hand, in relation to the absence of the representative of the General Council of Colleges of Administrative Managers of Spain, the President of the Forum addresses those present and proposes that, if Ms. Pilar Otero arrives before the end of the session, she be given the opportunity to speak out on the two previous points. The Associations and Colleges propose that, if they do not arrive on time, they could be allowed to comment later in writing.

Mr. Jesús Gascón then addresses the two entities that have not voted in favor of the texts of the Codes and asks them that if, subsequently, they decide internally to approve the Codes, they communicate this to the Tax Agency.

The Director General continued his intervention by pointing out that the texts have been approved and that the next task will be to develop the protocol for cases of non-compliance and to establish a signature procedure, in particular, in the case of tax professionals who individually wish to join. In any case, Mr. Jesús Gascón points out that the objective is not to have a Code of Good Practices, but rather that this is a communication tool to continue advancing in this line of work.

To conclude this point, he thanked everyone present for their collaboration and then moved on to the next point on the agenda.

5.- Information on the topics discussed in the working groups

Ms. Rosa María Prieto took the floor and pointed out that the presentation of the topics discussed during the first half of 2019, both in the working group on new regulations, models and campaigns and in the new group dedicated to the analysis of measures to promote legal certainty, will be distributed among the Departments of the Tax Agency based on their intervention in them. She thus indicates that, as Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service, she wishes to comment on the work carried out in relation to the code of good practices, although after the vote it seems that this is a little out of place. He points out that, as the Director General has already mentioned, throughout this semester work has been mainly done to try to unblock the situation, finally adopting a new alternative consisting of dividing the text into two codes that would allow all entities to be more comfortable. However, there were Associations and Colleges in which certain doubts arose and for this reason a meeting was called on June 20 where the necessary explanations and clarifications were given so that, when the time came, there would be no doubts about what was being put to the vote.

Next, Ms. Rosa María Prieto gives the floor to Mr. Gonzalo García de Castro, Director of the Tax Management Department, who will comment on the part of the activity of the working group on new regulations, models and campaigns that affects his Department.

Mr. Gonzalo García de Castro began his presentation by congratulating all those present at the plenary session for the important progress that the approval of the texts of the codes of good practice represents for the tax profession and for the Administration.

The Director of the Tax Management Department goes on to point out that, in relation to the meetings of the working group on new regulations, models and campaigns, he will focus his presentation on three very specific areas: The first is an assessment of the 2018 information declaration campaign and prospects for the 2019 campaign; the second, news and evolution of the 2018 Income Tax campaign; and thirdly, the standardization of the VAT record books within the framework of certain control actions carried out by the Tax Administration. He then goes on to detail each of the points:

• Assessment of the 2018 Informative Declarations campaign: The process has been carried out without incident and the result obtained can be considered quite satisfactory. The main novelty has been the implementation of the TGVI systemon line en los principales modelos, que ha ido francamente bien y agradece la postura activa y participativa de todos los profesionales del ámbito tributario. Esto permite devolver ingentes volúmenes de información a la ciudadanía en forma de servicios de asistencia, lo que permite trasladar una mayor certidumbre al ciudadano a la hora de cumplir con sus obligaciones con la Hacienda Pública. El paso siguiente es la extensión del sistema TGVI on line to other informative declarations, included in a note that is already available on the Tax Agency's website.

• News and developments in the 2018 Income Tax campaign: This type of massive campaign means that, in a period of almost two months, 25 million taxpayers interact with the tax authorities, resulting in more than 20 million tax returns filed, in an environment of total administrative normality. The main novelty of this campaign has been the disappearance of the pre-declaration, thus eliminating the printed paper, which has not entailed any practical impact. This allows us to continue to delve deeper into this tax management model that streamlines administrative procedures and, especially, those in which the taxpayer expects a response, such as refund requests.

• Standardization of VAT record books in electronic format: An electronic format of VAT record books has been published on the Tax Agency website for taxpayers not subject to SII which, although It is not mandatory, it is intended to conform to the procedure established by tax management in order to achieve a homogeneous format in the requirements and guarantee uniform and standardized action throughout the territory, regardless of their origin. Furthermore, continuing with this line of standardization, there is a draft ministerial order in process that would affect the registration books of IRPF of taxpayers who carry out economic activities.

Mr. Jesús Gascón thanks Mr. Gonzalo García de Castro for his intervention and gives the floor to Mr. Javier Hurtado Puerta, Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection.

Mr. Javier Hurtado began his speech by joining in the congratulations given by the Director of the Tax Management Department to all those present for the approval of the texts of the codes. The Associations and Colleges are then asked to submit through the Technical Secretariat any topics that they consider would be interesting to include in the working group sessions. The report then details the main issues addressed at the meetings of the working group on the analysis of measures to promote legal certainty held on 4 June:

• Analysis of the note published on the Tax Agency's website on the interposition of companies by natural persons: This note aims to clarify the criteria of the Tax Agency on this issue, as a result of the existing controversy regarding a possible change in criteria in the treatment of this type of entities. Thus, the note addresses two types of risks: On the one hand, there are companies that are exclusively for holding and enjoyment and, on the other, those that seek to preserve professional income. The reactions of the Administration in these cases are the reconversion to market value of the transactions between partner and company and, in cases of simulation or deception, the lifting of the veil and the taxation of the persons behind it. On the other hand, this is a general and non-technical note, so it will have to be studied on a case-by-case basis.

• Status of the Tax Intermediaries Directive (TAD 6): The General Directorate of Taxes reported that the law had been subjected to the novel prior public consultation process and that significant contributions had been made by the various operators, some of which had been incorporated into the transposition. The Director of the Inspection Department points out that he has to add to what was discussed at the meeting that the full text of the transposition was published on June 20 in order to comply with the public information procedure and observations may be submitted until July 12. He goes on to point out that, in the end, domestic operations have not been included, so it will only affect certain cross-border mechanisms. For its part, professional secrecy has been reduced in its terms, and the obligation to communicate may be exempted by the presence of intermediaries or obligated parties. He added that the Inspection Department will review these mechanisms to determine which are considered acceptable and which are not.

• Late submission of evidence in tax application procedures: A Supreme Court ruling in September 2018 has admitted the provision of evidence in administrative litigation proceedings, considering that a reviewing body has the right to do so. Thus, when the Tax Agency initiates an administrative procedure and requests certain documentation, it is because it is necessary to determine the true classification of the facts and establish whether any type of regularization is appropriate. If the taxpayer does not provide the requested information and does so later before the auditing body, the Tax Agency is being deprived of the ability to compare and evaluate the documents provided. Therefore, during the review procedures, a detailed completion of the information requested could be carried out and in the event of non-submission, if it could not be resolved, a sanction could be applied for the failure to provide the documents. At the meeting held on June 4, the Inspection Department noted that these situations should not occur within the framework of a cooperative relationship, which should be characterized by mutual transparency, good faith and collaboration.

• The principle of legitimate trust: This principle has recently gained great importance in the world of doctrine. It refers to the case in which a taxpayer acts at the behest of the Administration in accordance with an externalized and clear criterion and which, subsequently, without any regulatory change taking place, a review body modifies it against the taxpayer. It was mentioned at the meeting that the question was whether it should be projected only into the future or whether it could be applied retroactively. On the other hand, in no case would non-externalized criteria or those that involve a mere practice, or even the lack of regularization of a certain contingency, be covered by this principle. Furthermore, it is noted that the principle of legitimate trust is subordinate to that of legality, which includes the interpretation of the law and the powers of each body in this matter must be taken into account. It was mentioned at the meeting that, in order to unify the interpretative criteria and avoid subsequent changes, work would be carried out jointly with the General Directorate of Taxes.

• Using entities Holdings: On February 26, the CJEU issued two judgments providing relevant elements for the interpretation of the Parent-Subsidiary Directive and the Interest and Royalties Directive. These rulings are being analysed by the Legal Service of the Tax Agency, but basically they establish a general principle of prohibition of abusive practices, despite what the internal regulations have established when transposing the Directive. The Inspection Department stressed that the rulings are forceful against abusive tax planning, detailing in detail the indications to be considered in order to classify a conduct as abusive.

• UNE 19602 standard (Compliance): Para la Administración tributaria es un avance positivo en la medida que tiende a establecer sistemas internos de control dentro de las empresas en materia de fiscalidad para evitar que se produzcan irregularidades tributarias, siendo la propia empresa quien de forma voluntaria decide asumir los dictados de esta norma y someterse a auditoría en relación con la misma. Por su parte, para la Administración la Norma UNE es un elemento más de “compliance", that is, it is one more step towards improving relations between the Administration and the administered, but it is not a purely legal norm nor is it binding.

• Finally, the meeting addressed the issue of communications sent to certain companies reporting on the ratios corresponding to their economic sector. The Inspection Department reported that this action is part of an international context of improving tax compliance. Its objective is to inform the taxpayer of certain data held by the Administration that is used by it for risk analysis. Mr. Javier Hurtado adds that the campaign, after a prior process of analysis and selection, although not exhaustive, has been directed exclusively to companies, basically, of limited liability, that operate in specific areas. For their part, the Associations and Colleges requested at the meeting that they be informed before launching a campaign of this nature, to which the Inspection Department replied that this would be taken into account in future actions.

Mr. Jesús Gascón thanks Mr. Javier Hurtado for his intervention and points out that he wishes to emphasize that bidirectional mechanisms only work if the parties interact. The Tax Agency has thus taken the initiative in establishing and unifying general criteria in order to provide the tax system with greater legal certainty. He adds that, however, it is necessary for this mechanism to have a more bidirectional communication channel than the one that currently exists and that, to this end, it would be desirable for the Associations and Colleges to make proposals so that different positions and opinions could be shared in this Forum and, even, in complex and controversial issues, work sessions could be held in collaboration with the Institute of Fiscal Studies.

Next, and given that the representative of the General Council of Colleges of Administrative Managers of Spain, Ms. Pilar Otero Moar, has joined the meeting, Mr. Jesús Gascón informs her that points 3 and 4 of the agenda have already been submitted to the plenary session and requests that she express her opinion on them.

Ms. Pilar Otero Moar takes the floor and states that the group she represents is in favour of approving the texts of the codes, even if it is not unanimous. The Director General of the Tax Agency then informs him that all those present have also voted in favour of this solution. Mr. Jesús Gascón comments that, regarding the fourth point on the agenda, the majority of the Associations and Colleges have voted in favor and, once again, gives the floor to the representative of the General Council of Colleges of Administrative Managers of Spain.

Ms. Pilar Otero states that the vote in her group was in favour of approval, although she wishes to point out that it was not unanimous either. He added that the opinion of the organisation he represents is that the code is not as bidirectional as one would wish, but that, nevertheless, they understand that it is a step forward and that progress will continue, which is why they have decided to vote in favour of the approval of the texts of the codes in this plenary session.

The President of the Forum took the floor to state that the texts of the codes had been approved by the majority of those present and that the final result was that seven Associations or Colleges, as well as the Tax Agency, voted in favour, one entity abstained and another voted against. He reiterated that the latter's statement, according to their representatives, was motivated by not having had time for an appropriate internal debate.

Mr. Jesús Gascón then indicated that, continuing with point 5 of the agenda, he would like to offer the floor to anyone who wishes to speak.

Firstly, Mr. José Castaño Semitiel, representative of the General Council of Official Colleges of Social Graduates of Spain, took the floor. He pointed out that, with regard to the information letters sent to certain companies, the meeting requested that the possibility of tax professionals having access to said information held by the Tax Agency be studied. Ask if any decision has been taken in this regard.

Mr Jesús Gascón replied that it was still being evaluated internally and that it was a complex issue. The results of the campaign will be monitored, both from the point of view of the conflict generated and the changes in taxpayers' behaviour. He adds that in the IRPF the level of statistical breakdown is total, that is, for any section of the IAE you can consult on the website the declared data and the average effective rates of taxpayers subject to both the Objective Estimation Regime and those not subject. Similarly, in the IRPF campaign, the transfer of information held by the Administration to taxpayers is a very sophisticated mechanism that greatly facilitates compliance with the obligation. The Director General points out, however, that the repercussions of using this instrument on corporate tax still need to be studied and all possible effects will need to be assessed.

Next, Mr. Joan Torres Torres, representative of the Spanish Federation of Professional Associations of Tax Technicians and Tax Advisors, intervenes to ask whether the Tax Agency has a deadline in mind for entities that wish to do so to be able to adhere to the Code of Good Practices.

Ms. Rosa María Prieto replies that, although the Tax Agency has been working on developing a procedure, it has not been finalized pending approval of the Codes. He added that, as regards the Code of Good Practices for Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals, the mechanism envisaged is very simple and as soon as the final text is ready it will be sent to the members of the Forum. He added that, basically, once the governing bodies decide to adhere to the Code, they will notify the Tax Agency for registration and publication on the website. Regarding the Code of Good Practices for Tax Professionals, it will be necessary to determine how its adherence is technically implemented, whether through social collaboration or through other mechanisms.

Mr. Joan Torres takes the floor again and points out that in previous meetings the possibility was raised that once an Association has joined, it would be the one in charge of processing the adhesions of its members.

The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service responds that this would be a possibility but that, nevertheless, it would be necessary to determine how it is technically articulated and recorded in the computer systems of the AEAT . He reiterates that, if the associate is listed as a Social Collaborator, he is already identified for the Tax Agency and it is easy to link his adherence to the Code. He adds that, however, other mechanisms will have to be studied.

Mr. Jesús Gascón then points out that the immediate activity of this Forum is to articulate the procedures for adhesions, outlining them based on the different cases. He added that the Tax Agency is open to any proposals made by Associations and Colleges, who are the ones who best know their respective organizations.

The Director General continued his speech by indicating that, as he has already mentioned in previous meetings, there is a Code of Good Tax Practices arising from the work of the Forum of Large Companies, which, although any entity that is interested can adhere to, the truth is that much of its content is inapplicable to small and medium-sized companies. Thus, Mr. Jesús Gascón reiterates that the Tax Agency had received two proposals for the development of codes of good practice, one for self-employed workers (individuals) and another for SMEs. At the moment, and given that these groups do not have a framework for presentation and debate such as this Forum, the work is in its early stages, but I would nevertheless like to mention it because it is possible that at some point clients who have signed their own code of good tax practices may appear in the offices of tax professionals.

Next, Mr. Antonio Ibarra López, representative of the Professional Association of Accounting and Tax Experts, takes the floor to propose that the fact that the tax management bodies, in the case of transfers of shares or stocks in unlisted companies, of which there have been many in recent years due to the economic crisis, are massively submitting liquidation proposals relating to the valuation of these shares by applying the capitalization of three years of equity or the theoretical book value, be included in the work of the analysis working group to promote legal certainty. These actions are generating defenselessness, given that the TEAR usually confirm the administrative acts and only later, in the contentious-administrative route, is it resolved in favor of the taxpayer. Mr. Antonio Ibarra adds that, given the expenses that must be incurred to obtain a favorable ruling, in many cases it seems more advisable not to do so, thereby materially depriving the taxpayer of the possibility of appeal.

Mr. Jesús Gascón replied that they would study the issue and that it would be discussed at the next meeting of the working group.

Next, Mr. José Castaño Semitiel, representative of the General Council of Official Colleges of Social Graduates of Spain, takes the floor again and proposes that the working group also discuss how the issue of the constitution of communities of property has been left. He points out that at the time the Tax Agency published a note with the Administration's criteria on this matter, but that, at present, there are different interpretations between the different delegations of the AEAT .

Mr. Gonzalo García de Castro answers that, both in this matter and in the one raised by Mr. Antonio Ibarra, it would be convenient that, given the variety of cases in this matter, they send more detailed cases to the Tax Agency, in order to focus their development for the meeting of the working group.

Mr. Jesús Gascón then indicated that he had taken note of the two proposed topics and, as there were no further interventions, he moved on to the next point on the agenda.

6. Other considerations, requests and questions

The President of the Forum addresses those present and opens the floor.

Mr. Javier Gómez Taboada, representative of the Spanish Association of Tax Advisors (AEDAF), intervened to point out that, based on the functions of this Forum, specifically those provided for in section II.1 of the operating rules, which fundamentally establish that the Forum will serve to increase legal certainty by disseminating the criteria for action applied by the Tax Agency, he wishes to make two legitimate requests. The first, that they be provided with the opinion of the Legal Service of the Tax Agency, which has endorsed the return of IRPF of maternity-paternity benefits; and the second, requests clarification of what is happening with the Corporate Tax manual for the current campaign, since in a first version there was a paragraph on the quantification of the capitalization reserve, which has disappeared in a later version. He added that, on this subject, he would like to know whether the Tax Agency has issued any instructions on whether this reserve forms part of the equity or not, because they are detecting disputes that had never occurred before. Finally, Mr. Javier Gómez Taboada points out that, regarding the elimination of the option of printing the IRPF declaration on paper, he wishes to share with those present that the ministerial order that so determined has been the subject of an appeal before the National Court.

Mr. Jesús Gascón replies that he takes note of the two requests and adds that, indeed, the ministerial order is being appealed, but that, when the Director of the Tax Management Department commented that the IRPF campaign has developed completely normally, he was referring to the monitoring of the incidents that the Tax Agency carries out through the Council for the Defense of the Taxpayer, and in no case was he referring to the legal field.

Next, Mr. Rafael Gil March, representative of the General Council of the Spanish Bar Association, took the floor. He pointed out that he would like to reiterate a request already made on other occasions in this Forum, which is that, when regulatory or other changes of a certain importance for the groups they represent are to be published, it would be desirable for the Tax Agency to inform the members of this Forum.

The Director General answers that the Tax Agency is not responsible for regulations and that, based on his professional experience in the General Directorate of Taxes, he can comment that there are times when, during the processing phase of a regulatory project, a point is reached at which the decision on sending it to the public information procedure is taken at the last minute by the highest authorities and without the possibility, even, of informing other bodies of the Administration about the final text. However, Mr Jesús Gascón points out that this issue will be studied jointly with the General Directorate of Taxes.

Mr Rafael Gil then adds that it is not necessary to inform this Forum in advance or simultaneously, but what he would appreciate is that it be informed as soon as the Tax Agency has knowledge of it. On the other hand, he goes on to point out that, in order to make the two-way nature of this communication channel effective, when the Tax Agency decides to publish a general criterion, it would be desirable for it to inform tax professionals beforehand, so that they could make their contributions or clarify positions. He uses the Note on the Interposition of Companies as an example and points out that it is fine, but that, in his opinion, there is a lack of information. Finally, he highlights that we must take advantage of the feedback that social collaborators can contribute with respect to any criteria to be published.

Mr. Jesús Gascón responds that any action by the tax authorities has enormous social and media significance, hence the general and informative nature of the aforementioned note. He adds that, however, to the extent that more technical issues are addressed, the Tax Agency agrees that the process should be collaborative and work bilaterally, noting that the first thing to do in this area is to determine among all which issues they want to clarify.

Mr. Antonio Ibarra López, representative of the Professional Association of Accounting and Tax Experts, takes the floor again and states that, with all due respect to Ms. Pilar Otero, in view of the preparation of the minutes of this meeting with regard to the votes on points 3 and 4 of the agenda, perhaps the mechanism that allows, on the one hand, to collect the pronouncements of the General Council of Colleges of Administrative Managers of Spain and, on the other, to comply with all the formal requirements should be clearly articulated. He added that his association was very satisfied with the result and that, precisely for this reason, it did not want any problems in approving the minutes. On the other hand, Mr. Antonio Ibarra continues commenting on the problems that are being encountered in a particular administration of the AEAT . There is a widespread complaint, not only among tax professionals, but also among the staff of the Tax Agency itself, regarding the actions of the administrator and the virulence with which he performs his duties.

Mr. Jesús Gascón comments that, precisely, the Codes of Good Practice provide mechanisms to channel this type of situations in which one of the parties is failing to comply with its commitments. He added that he had taken note of the matter. On the other hand, regarding the minutes, he addresses all those present and comments that, if no one objects, it may be reflected in the minutes that the result of the vote was as follows: seven votes in favour, as well as that of the Tax Agency, one abstention and one vote against.

None of the attendees expressed opposition to the proposal.

Next, Mr. José Castaño Semitiel, representative of the General Council of Official Colleges of Social Graduates of Spain, took the floor again. He stated that, first of all, he would like to congratulate all the members of the Forum for the approval of the Codes of Good Practice. He goes on to point out that, after repeated requests to the Administration, it has finally been possible to direct debit the payments for the declarations of the community property. On the other hand, the request is reiterated for a mechanism to be devised that allows the Tax Agency to issue certificates of being up to date when there are deferrals, without the taxpayer having to go to an office and present the receipt of the payment made. He adds that he does not understand how the bank cannot, in some way, inform the Administration that the payment has been made. Finally, he would also like to comment that, if the payment of a self-assessment of IRPF is domiciled and, for whatever reason, on the last day of the deadline the payment is not made (due to lack of balance, incorrect account...), the taxpayer does not have a mechanism to be able to pay it on the same day. Mr José Castaño asks whether in such cases it would not be possible to issue a type of payment letter which, with the same reference number as the self-assessment, would allow payment to be made.

Mr. Guillermo Barros Gallego, Director of the Tax Collection Department, replied that the Tax Agency is indeed aware of these limitations and that, in collaboration with financial institutions, work is being done to find solutions that will allow progress towards a more immediate information model. He adds that transforming the architecture of the entire system is a complex task, but that, nevertheless, the issue is being studied in depth and it is possible that, in some cases, card payment can be arbitrated.

Next, Mr. Joan Torres Torres, representative of the Spanish Federation of Professional Associations of Tax Technicians and Tax Advisors, takes the floor again to remind those present that another request that is reiterated in all plenary sessions is to be able to direct debit the payment of the declarations until the last day of the deadline for their presentation.

Mr. Guillermo Barros points out that work is being done to ensure that the payment period is adjusted to the deadline for filing the declaration and that, together with the financial institutions, possible solutions are being analysed to make the information available more immediately.

Next, Mr. Adolfo Jiménez Ramírez, representative of the Spanish Federation of Professional Associations of Tax Technicians and Tax Advisors, spoke. He pointed out that the regional treasuries have not only extended the deadline for quarterly declarations until the 25th, but that, in addition, direct debit can be made until the last day of the deadline.

The Director of the Tax Collection Department points out that, apart from the fact that the amounts handled are not the same, in the common territory the relationship with the banking system is through a statute that confers them the status of collaborating entity. One of the characteristics of this collaboration is that once the payment has been made in the Treasury's bank account, there is no possibility of rectification and, in addition, this payment is compared with the information that the bank has to send. He adds that, for this reason, the entity needs to carry out a whole series of verification processes that allow it to be sure that an individual action will not give rise to errors that could translate into a material loss for its entity.

Mr. Jesús Gascón takes the floor and indicates that in this matter there is complete identity of interests with the regional treasuries and adds that, fortunately, technological advances will contribute to reducing this type of incident.

Next, Ms. Alicia Rodríguez Hitos, representative of the General Council of Official Colleges of Social Graduates of Spain, asked the Director of the Tax Management Department if it would be possible to modify the system of notifications of requirements so that it would be disconnected on Fridays at 24:00 hours and would not be put back into operation until Monday.

Mr. Manuel Alfonso Castro Martínez, Director of the Tax Information Technology Department, replies that the system operates continuously and that there is no programming, which means that it cannot be stopped on weekends. He adds that, as is well known, notification is not deemed to have been made until 10 days have passed since the request was sent. There are also courtesy days, established, in principle, for the periods in which the taxpayer or his representative wishes to enjoy annual vacations.

Ms. Alicia Rodríguez intervenes again to comment that, indeed, there are 10 days to open the email, but that when you receive a notice that you have received a notification, you can hardly wait until Monday to read it.

Mr. Jesús Gascón answers that these issues of work-life balance do not have an easy solution. However, in his opinion, there may be some people who think differently and prefer to receive notifications over the weekend rather than having them accumulate until Monday.

Mr. José Castaño Semitiel, representative of the General Council of Official Colleges of Social Graduates of Spain, takes the floor again and, returning to the subject of the lack of payment of a direct debit declaration, suggests as a solution the possibility of accessing the direct debit through the website, in some way, adding a link where a payment letter could be downloaded.

Mr. Guillermo Barros Gallego, Director of the Collection Department, responds that it is one of the options that are being studied and points out that it would have to be an irrevocable payment letter, so that the financial institution does not have any doubts as to the real and permanent receipt of the money.

Since there are no new interventions, the Director General of the Tax Agency thanks everyone for their attendance and participation and closes the fifteenth session of the plenary session of the Forum of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals.