Plenary Sessions
The Plenary is composed of all its members, under the direction of the President and assisted by the Technical Secretary
Eighth session - November 26, 2015
MINUTES OF THE PLENARY MEETING OF THE FORUM OF ASSOCIATIONS AND
COLLEGES OF TAX PROFESSIONALS
HELD ON NOVEMBER 26, 2015
President of the Forum of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals
General Director of the State Tax Administration Agency
Mr. Santiago Menéndez Menéndez
Members representing the State Tax Administration Agency:
Director of the Tax Management Department
D. Rufino de la Rosa Cordón
Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection
Mr. Luis Mª Sánchez González
Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service
Mr. Ángel Rodríguez Rodríguez
Director of the Legal Service
Mr. Diego Loma-Osorio Lerena
Special Delegate of Catalonia
Mr. Gonzalo David García de Castro
Deputy Director General of Applications – Department of Tax IT
Mrs. Cristina Álvarez Zazo
Deputy Director General of Intervention and Management of Excise Taxes - Department of Customs and Excise Taxes
Mr. Vicente Cillero Martínez
Deputy Director General of Coordination and Management - Collection Department
Mr. Miguel Lorenz Falomir
Members representing Associations and Colleges
Spanish Association of Tax Advisors
Deputy Director of the Studies Office
Mrs. Marta González Álvaro
Professional Association of Accounting and Tax Experts of Spain
Chairperson
Mr. Juan Carlos Berrocal Rangel
General Council of Spanish Lawyers
Store Manager
Mr. Adolfo Estébanez Velasco
Head of Accounting
Mrs. Aurora López Aldea
General Council of Colleges of Administrative Managers
President of the College of Alicante
Mr. José Luis Tonda Martínez
General Council of Official Colleges of Social Graduates of Spain
Specialist in Fiscal and Tax Studies
Mr. José Castaño Semitiel
Spanish Federation of Professional Associations of Tax Technicians and Tax Advisors
Deputy Presidency
Mr. José Luis Carreras Torres
Cabinet of Administrative Managers and Tax Advisors
Lawyer
Mrs. Raquel Cobos Casero
General Registry of Tax Advisors / Registry of Tax Advisory Economists
Member of the Board of Directors
Mr. Jesús Fernández-Bravo Pinto
Member of the Board of Directors
Ms. Esther Luque Sánchez
Technical Secretariat of the Forum of Professional Associations and Colleges
Deputy Director General of External Communication – Planning and Institutional Relations Service
Mr. Rafael Serrano Galán
In Madrid, on November 26, 2015, the eighth plenary meeting of the Forum of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals is held, attended by the aforementioned people, and in accordance with the following
AGENDA
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Opening by the General Director of the State Tax Administration Agency.
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Approval of the minutes of the session held on July 1, 2015.
- 2015 Income Campaign: WEB Income Extension.
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Current status of the SII project.
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Other considerations, requests and questions.
I.- In development of the first point of the agenda , opens the session Mr. Ángel Rodríguez Rodríguez, Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service , welcoming the attendees to the eighth meeting of the plenary session of the Forum and apologizing for the absence of Mr. Santiago Menéndez Menéndez, President of the Forum and General Director of the State Tax Administration Agency, who for reasons beyond his control was not can appear at this time, although he will join as soon as possible. Likewise, he states that he wants to take advantage of the opportunity to convey the will of the Tax Agency to continue cooperating with social partners, trying to find meeting points that can provide mutual benefits in the management of taxes, both for the Tax Agency and for the social collaborators.
II.- In development of the second point of the agenda , the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service gives the floor to Mr. Rafael Serrano Galán, as head of the Technical Secretariat of the Forum, who explains the process of preparing the minutes of the previous meeting and addresses those present in case they wish to make any observation or comment on it.
Mr. Adolfo Estébanez Velasco, Manager of the General Council of Spanish Lawyers, asks to speak, and states that Mr. Rafael Gil March, Vice-Dean of the College of the Balearic Islands, normally attends the plenary meetings of this Forum, and that, since he cannot come Today, he asked him to reiterate the question he asked at the previous plenary meeting regarding whether the Tax Agency was planning to publish an information note on the presentation of form 720 after the deadline and that it be reflected in the minutes of this meeting.
Without prejudice to recording such a statement, Mr. Rafael Serrano clarifies that at this time observations are being requested regarding the minutes of the previous meeting, to which Mr. Adolfo Estébanez states that the minutes of the previous session seem correct to him.
Mr. Rafael Serrano takes the floor again and as no further observations are made, he declares that the minutes of the meeting of July 1, 2015 are approved and will be published in the space reserved for the Forum on the Tax Agency's website.
III.- In development of the third point of the agenda , Mr. Ángel Rodríguez states that, as previously reported in this Forum, the The Tax Agency continues working on the implementation for 2016 of the “Renta WEB” project, whose pilot test was carried out in 2015 in the offices of the AEAT. To report on the current status of the project, give the floor to Mr. Rufino de la Rosa Cordón, Director of the Tax Management Department.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa explains that, although the Renta WEB project is aimed primarily at users of the PADRE program, he sees it as convenient for social partners to know about it. He then comments on the reasons why, despite the fact that the PADRE program is a sufficiently proven tool with a high degree of acceptance and success, the Tax Agency has decided to carry out this project:
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Almost 20% of accesses to the AEAT website are made from mobile devices (phone, tablet, etc.) that do not allow the downloading of programs.
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Transfer to Income Tax the system of pre-declarations that has already been done with other taxes.
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Simplicity, since you do not have to install the PADRE or Java program, and ubiquity, since it allows you to start the declaration on any device and finish it on another, since the information is saved on the server.
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It is a more interactive service that adapts to all taxpayer profiles, and with which you can access the latest update of tax data at all times.
The Director of the Tax Management Department continues by pointing out that in the last two Income Tax campaigns a transition has been carried out between the draft and the PADRE program, aimed at unifying and integrating the two tools so that their use would be increasingly simpler. .
He comments that in the 2014 Income campaign there was, on the one hand, a “host” environment for the draft, used by certain taxpayer profiles, and Income WEB, which was used only in the offices of the Tax Agency and, on the other hand , the desktop of the taxpayer who had downloaded the PADRE program, for all types of income. He adds that the Renta WEB pilot test was very positive, collecting a series of suggestions and exceeding the set objective. The Director of the Tax Management Department continues by explaining that for the 2015 Income campaign, the PADRE program will continue to exist, especially for certain income that cannot be declared with Income WEB, such as those derived from economic activities, and also for those taxpayers who prefer continue using it. For the rest of the taxpayers, Renta WEB will be used. He continues by commenting that regarding the draft, there were two types:
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Draft pending confirmation, in which the Administration knew all the tax data and the taxpayer only had to confirm it.
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Draft pending modification, in which it was necessary for the taxpayer to provide a series of data before its presentation.
As for who will be able to use Renta WEB, the Director of the Tax Management Department explains that just as there were two draft profiles in previous campaigns, in Renta WEB there will also be two:
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Immediate profile: The Tax Agency has all the taxpayer's information, including the options that can be exercised. It is hoped that for this group the transition will be as simple as possible and that they will notice minimal differences with the previous campaign.
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Step by step profile: The Tax Agency needs information from the taxpayer. In this case, the taxpayer will have to go through a series of screens where they will have to provide some information.
Regarding the differences that the taxpayer will perceive, it depends on their profile:
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Immediate profile: The differences are minimal. Just like the draft, you will be able to view it on paper and online. You will receive a complete pre-declaration.
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Step by step profile: In previous campaigns they received the tax data and a draft pending modification. In the next campaign, the taxpayer will perceive that the only calculation tool will be WEB Income, that is, they will receive a letter and the tax data, but not a draft. Generally, this profile of taxpayers will not notice much difference either since in previous years they also had to go through a series of screens to provide data.
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Taxpayers with economic activities: They will continue with the PADRE Program, which will also be available to those taxpayers who prefer it.
The Director of the Tax Management Department continues by pointing out that the access routes, as well as the identification routes, will continue to be the same: electronic certificate, Cl@ve PIN and reference number. Regarding the latter, indicate the differences: In previous years, when a taxpayer requested a reference number, their tax data was referred to that moment. With Renta WEB, tax data will be continually updated with the data available to the Administration. That is, the linking of the reference number is transferred from a file number to a taxpayer. This achieves greater data security and the possibility of requesting more than one reference number if needed, only the last one being valid.
Regarding the navigation process, once the taxpayer identifies himself, a home screen will appear, where he can see the processing status and the services available. If Renta WEB does not appear among the latter, it is because you have to use the PADRE program. Regarding taxpayers with an immediate transfer profile, navigation will be carried out in three steps: You will access the service using one of the available forms of identification and your personal data will appear; Once these are confirmed, a screen appears with a summary of your tax data that includes, as a novelty, the comparison between individual and joint taxation. Finally, you must click on “submit declaration”.
The Director of the Tax Management Department continues by commenting that three versions are contemplated when accessing Renta WEB: taxpayer version, office version and Taxpayer telephone assistance office version. The novelties that can be highlighted are the following:
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The number of children with income for the purposes of joint taxation is increased to four.
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Regarding the reference number, note that, in the joint return, one will be necessary for each of the spouses.
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As for the CC. AA. of residence, the data will be transferred if it appears in the tax data.
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In the case of deceased ascendants, the date of death is added to the capture window.
Regarding the data summary, continues the Director of the Tax Management Department, it will be accessible to all taxpayers, both those with an immediate profile and those on a step-by-step basis. Drawing on the experience of the pilot test, the possibility of accessing the declared data has been incorporated. The aim is to prevent the taxpayer from perceiving that they have lost control by making the process of preparing the income tax return so intuitive and simple. This way, you can access the report of the data that has been incorporated into your return and check it.
In relation to the presentation of the declaration, it will be similar to previous years. It can be done from the declaration summary screen or from another section of the declaration. In both cases you will access the presentation window where, in order to encourage telematic presentation, the immediate presentation will appear selected. The taxpayer may modify this option and choose to obtain a pre-declaration that will only be presentable if the option to print pre-declaration is chosen, generating the deposit/return document.
You can also download a PDF of the declaration in a non-presentable format at any time. Furthermore, another novelty compared to previous campaigns is that the declaration method box will appear pre-filled in, as well as the bank details. Regarding the tax allocation, the option from the previous year will be preselected.
Mr. Rufino comments that the planned calendar for the 2015 Income campaign will be similar to that of previous years. He adds that another novelty is that in previous campaigns only the pages that contained information were printed; In 2015, however, only the boxes that have information will be printed or those that, being “zero”, need to be displayed because they contain relevant information.
Finally, Mr. Rufino comments that he hopes to have informed those attending this Forum of the situation in which this project finds itself, which, on the one hand, involves sending all contributors a semi-draft, even if it is not complete, and, on the other, without taking into account the taxpayer's IT resources, providing this service to nineteen and a half million taxpayers, which represents a significant technological challenge.
Mr. Juan Carlos Berrocal Rangel, President of the Professional Association of Accounting and Tax Experts of Spain, takes the floor and asks about the concept of “pre-declaration” and its legal effects.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa clarifies that this is more internal than legal terminology and that it has been extended to all taxes. Basically it is a declaration that becomes such when the taxpayer signs it and the novelty that Renta WEB provides is that the data is on the AEAT server.
Ms. Cristina Álvarez Zazo, Deputy Director General of Applications of the Department of Tax IT, then takes the floor and explains that pre-declaration is a printing service that in order to use it must be connected to the electronic headquarters of the Tax Agency. Until now, the PADRE program was printed locally from a personal computer without an Internet connection being necessary. Pre-declarations do require a connection, since the printing service is provided by the electronic headquarters of the Tax Agency. Ms. Cristina clarifies that the ministerial orders refer to “printing service”, but that in the Tax Agency, for simplicity, it is called “pre-declaration”.
Mr. Jesús Fernández-Bravo Pinto, Member of the Board of Directors General Registry of Tax Advisors / Registry of Tax Advisor Economists, takes the floor and states that an effort would have to be made so that in the month of March the tax data of the taxpayers since if not, errors occur due to data that the taxpayer was unaware they had to provide. He adds that it would be desirable that until June 30, corrections could be made to the declarations presented and not have to present a complementary one or initiate a procedure to request undue income. He goes on to say that he knows that this proposal goes against the General Tax Law and that is why the Associations have always requested that the General Directorate of Taxes attend these meetings.
The Director of the Tax Management Department answers that this tool allows, in the future, legal progress in this regard. He also states that it is true that there is information that is collected with some delay, but that considerable progress has been made on this issue.
Mr. José Castaño Semitiel, Specialist in Fiscal and Tax Studies of the General Council of Official Colleges of Social Graduates of Spain, takes the floor and asks if in the next campaign it will be possible to change the mobile phone number when requesting the reference number. Mr. Rufino de la Rosa confirms that this possibility will exist.
The Deputy Director General of Applications of the Department of Tax IT intervenes and states that the novelty of the next campaign is that each time a reference number is requested, the previous one is cancelled, unlike what happened in previous campaigns in which the reference numbers requested by a taxpayer coexisted. For this reason, he adds, coordination between the advisor and his clients will be necessary since it could occur that the client's request for the reference number cancels out the one requested by the advisor and vice versa.
Mr. José Castaño Semitiel takes the floor again to raise two questions: The first refers to whether the data download will continue to be available for computer applications and, the second, whether the Associations will be able to access the pre-declaration printing system.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa answers that regarding the first question, it will be possible to download the data with the computer applications; However, in relation to the second question, the answer is no, that the AEAT has not considered changing the strategy started two years ago.
Ms. Aurora López Aldea, Head of Accounting of the General Council of Spanish Lawyers, then takes the floor and comments that the provisional calendar has set June 24 as the deadline for direct debit. He asked if any progress had been made on this issue, recalling the controversy that arose in all meetings in relation to this deadline.
Mr. Ángel Rodríguez intervened to indicate that if there is no inconvenience and in order to follow the agenda, this issue would be discussed in point 5 of the agenda. He asked if anyone else wanted to intervene in relation to the Renta WEB project, with no further comments.
IV.- In development of the fourth point of the agenda , the Technical Secretary gives the floor to Mr. Rufino de la Rosa, who passes to explain the current situation of the Immediate Information Supply Project (SII). It begins by pointing out that the Draft Royal Decree for the modernization, improvement and promotion of the use of electronic means in the management of Value Added Tax was submitted to public information on July 31, receiving numerous observations and that the report is currently pending. of the Council of State. He comments that the project will be applicable, in principle, to large companies and those that are in REDEME. He points out that the project basically consists of maintaining VAT registration books in the electronic headquarters of the AEAT, incorporating into an XML file in a more complete way information that the company already has, although not in a single document.
At that moment, Mr. Santiago Menéndez Menéndez, General Director of the AEAT, joins the meeting and, after apologizing for the delay, requests that the session continue.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa continues, indicating that the four-day period will be counted, in the case of issued invoices, from the date of issue and, in the case of received invoices, from the date of their accounting registration.
In relation to the operational calendar, it indicates that the SII will be applicable on January 1, 2017 but that a pilot test will begin in 2016. D. Rufino explains that companies whose experience is reusable, that is, can be outsourced to other companies, will participate in the pilot test. Thus, companies from different categories and sectors have been selected. The same has been done with technological suppliers. The Director of the Tax Management Department adds that there are companies that would like to participate in the pilot test and that they are thinking about whether it works properly and the companies that participate in it decrease their need for attention from the AEAT, Starting in the summer, make a second call to those companies that are interested. Furthermore, companies that in the last months of 2016 have their computer systems ready to begin providing information to the Tax Agency will not have to wait until January 2017 and will be able to start doing so in the previous December. D. Rufino continues by pointing out that in the case of companies that do not have a powerful internal IT or tax department, that is, those that are more related to social partners, the AEAT is working with companies to support and develop computer consulting programs, firm electronic or electronic invoice so that they can also provide this service. In a second phase, the pilot test could be extended to companies with these characteristics, once we see how the experience develops.
The President then opens a speaking session.
Mr. Juan Carlos Berrocal Rangel takes the floor, explaining that the consequences derived from failures in the operation of the AEAT servers should be regulated, since the electronic Headquarters is the only channel through which social collaboration is instrumentalized. , professional offices suffer a series of damages in these situations and, specifically, with the SII project and the four-day period, they see this regulation as very necessary.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa intervenes and states that although in general the extension of the deadline is contemplated due to technical difficulties, the extension of the deadline is an issue that is being studied, and that perhaps it would be desirable to include some caution in the ministerial order for the that XML files are regulated.
Mr. Jesús Fernández-Bravo Pinto, Member of the Board of Directors of the General Registry of Tax Advisors / Registry of Tax Advisory Economists, takes the floor and requests that it be recorded in the minutes that the members of his association doubt the need for said deadline and the effort that could imply for taxpayers.
Mr. Santiago Menéndez intervenes, indicating that a comprehensive understanding of the project is necessary to adequately assess its requirements.
Mr. Jesús Fernández-Bravo Pinto points out that the associations and schools participating in the meeting are representing groups of professionals and taxpayers, and they have to convey the issues presented to them and, by virtue of the above, he refers to the deadline in that returns are occurring.
The President states that this issue will be positively affected by the SII, which will allow them to be accelerated and that explanations can be given regarding possible alterations to said deadline.
Mr. Juan Carlos Berrocal Rangel intervenes to link his statements about the deadline to companies registered in the REDEME and advocates the search for the effectiveness of social collaboration in this area.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa takes the floor and states that the SII represents a change in the way social collaborators relate to their clients or, within large companies, how their departments relate. The project contemplates immediacy so that, on the one hand, processes are automated and, on the other, so that the sending of information is not concentrated at a certain moment, but rather as billing occurs.
Mr. Santiago Menéndez intervenes and comments that the AEAT is making a great effort to disseminate and explain the SII project, to which he finds many advantages. This is a new way of relating to the Tax Administration from which the compliant taxpayer, after adapting in his own internal management and in his relationships with social partners, will obtain greater fluidity and peace of mind. He continues by indicating that in the adaptation process problems will arise at the beginning and that is why a pilot test is being carried out to allow the system to be perfected. Likewise, he adds that intense dissemination work on the project is also being carried out within the AEAT itself. He continues by commenting on the importance of the collaboration of the Colleges and Associations in disseminating the project among those taxpayers for whom the system is not mandatory.
The Director of the Tax Management Department takes the floor to report that an explanatory document on the SII project has been published on the Tax Agency's website and that it is planned to establish a space where all the documentation (regulatory) will be published. , frequently asked questions, etc.) about it.
Ms. Esther Luque Sánchez, Member of the Board of Directors of the General Registry of Tax Advisors / Registry of Tax Advisory Economists, intervenes and asks if the second phase of the pilot test will be accessible to all those who voluntarily want to join and carry out the internship.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa states that the number of companies that join this second phase of the pilot test will depend on the availability of the AEAT and is not yet closed. He adds that the Associations and Colleges represented in this Forum will be consulted to see if they are interested in participating.
Ms. Esther Luque Sánchez points out that on January 1, 2017 the SII will be mandatory for certain companies that, although they have a turnover greater than 6 million euros, are not so large in structure and organization and can produce many unforeseen in its adaptation. It continues to use the SILTRA Social Security Plan as a model, where the system has been implemented gradually and with three months of practice. He continues by proposing that participation in this second phase of internships be accessible and automatic for anyone interested in doing so.
The Deputy Director General of Applications of the Department of Tax Informatics takes the floor and points out that it is planned that for the month of November 2016, access to the system will be free for the groups that have to join compulsorily on January 1, 2017, and so decide. of some time to carry out practices.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa intervenes to indicate that unlike the pilot test, both in its first and second phases, where the relationship between AEAT officials and company personnel is permanent and has the task of resolving the issues that arise derived from its implementation in order to perfect the system, what is intended, foreseeably for the month of November, is to facilitate free access to the system so that companies that voluntarily decide to do so can test its operation. He concludes by adding that in this process of adaptation of companies, the Tax Agency has the fundamental role of the social collaborator, providing them with their support and professional advice.
Mr. José Luis Carreras Torres, Deputy to the Presidency of the Spanish Federation of Professional Associations of Tax Technicians and Tax Advisors, takes the floor and states that, indeed, social partners help with the implementation among taxpayers of the procedures, developments and changes taxes in general and wonders about the recognition of this work.
Mr. Santiago Menéndez states that the AEAT recognizes and appreciates the work of the social collaborator, in its own area of operation, which is that of helping to implement AEAT projects.
V.- In development of the fifth point of the agenda , the President addresses those present to inform them that it has recently been published on the page AEAT website a document prepared in the Cooperative Relations Working Group of the Large Business Forum. This document is framed within the Code of Good Tax Practices and establishes a series of commitments both on the part of the Tax Agency and the companies, as well as the procedures for monitoring compliance with them and, where appropriate, the consequences derived. of non-compliance. Its purpose is to encourage cooperative relationships. He adds that it would be interesting if a similar debate and analysis were held in this Forum with the aim of preparing a document, adapted to the particularities of the relations between the AEAT and social partners, among which would be the following:
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The document would be debated with Associations, Colleges and professionals and not directly with companies.
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Not all commitments made by large companies, as well as established procedures, have similar importance in this Forum.
The President then gives the floor to Mr. Adolfo Estébanez Velasco, Manager of the General Council of Spanish Lawyers, who reiterates the question asked by this Association in the previous plenary meeting regarding whether the Tax Agency was planning to publish an informative note on the submission of form 720 after the deadline and requests that the question be reflected in the minutes of this meeting.
Mr. Ángel Rodríguez takes the floor and clarifies that in the minutes of the previous meeting it was recorded in relation to this topic that some association had submitted a query to the General Directorate of Taxes.
Mr. Santiago Menéndez intervenes and clarifies that, in relation to the taxpayer who submits form 720 and voluntarily regularizes, the consequences that the rule imposes are that the Tax Agency applies the surcharges corresponding to late submissions and not the 150% penalty. , without prejudice to the much reduced formal penalty for late submission. He adds that the Tax Agency is entrusted with help and assistance and also control functions, with the issuance throughout the year of a considerable number of administrative acts and a good level in the quality of its operation. It points out, however, that it is logical that errors occur, which does not mean that the AEAT has an interest in applying the most restrictive and unfavorable criteria for the taxpayer. Mr. Santiago Menéndez continues by reporting that the European Commission has posed a series of questions to Spain, and that when there is a final ruling from Brussels, the Tax Agency will comply with it as it has done previously. On the other hand, it indicates that the number of 150% sanctions that are being imposed is very small since it responds to a very specific profile: taxpayers who did not present form 750, who do not present form 720 either or did so after the deadline at the request of the Administration or voluntarily without regularizing the consequences imposed by the rule and who, in addition, cannot prove that they are assets or rights from declared income. Finally, Mr. Santiago Menéndez encourages submitting a query to the General Directorate of Taxes if it has not been done previously.
Mr. Juan Carlos Berrocal Rangel takes the floor, who reiterates the request that the Tax Agency issue a note explaining the criteria that the Director General has presented at this meeting and that he already presented in the previous session.
The President intervenes to comment that in relation to the proposal he made earlier in this meeting to prepare a document within the framework of the cooperative relationship, one of the commitments that the Tax Agency could acquire would be to publicize the criteria that are being applied in a certain subject, either on their own initiative or at the request of social collaborators. He points out that this would be very novel and an exercise in transparency since the usual channel for the Administration to clarify the criteria it applies is through the production of administrative acts.
The Director of the Tax Inspection Department takes the floor to point out that the competence for the interpretation of the rules lies with the General Directorate of Taxes and not with the Tax Agency.
Mr. Juan Carlos Berrocal Rangel intervenes and states that, indeed, the binding interpretation is that of the General Directorate of Taxes but that social partners would greatly appreciate knowing the internal notes prepared by the Tax Agency for its own employees who, although they lack that binding effect, they would allow the social collaborator to know what to expect, thereby avoiding, in many cases, litigation.
Mr. Jesús Fernández-Bravo Pinto takes the floor, who in relation to the issue of communities of property and civil societies points out that there are discrepancies between the criteria of the Tax Agency and the General Directorate of Taxes.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa answers that the officials of the Tax Agency also demand clear instructions in some matters, as is the case cited. He adds that what has happened is that a draft of instructions that the AEAT was preparing has been published in the media without being finalized, and that the Department of Tax Management is pending the reports requested from different administrative bodies to prepare some instructions. It is expected that they will be available soon.
Mr. Juan Carlos Berrocal Rangel takes the floor and expresses his concern that as of January 1, 2017, an actuary from the Tax Agency, in the course of a verification, may modify the classification of the income obtained by a community of assets that It has a commercial purpose and its NIF is a community of property and has been operating as such since it was established, but according to the Civil Code it is not a community of property.
Mr. Rufino de la Rosa intervenes and clarifies that this issue is resolved with the consultations of the General Directorate of Taxes, which can be relied upon in any verification procedure.
The Director of the Tax Management Department continues, highlighting the interest of the Tax Agency in preparing instructions for the unification of criteria. He points out that two situations occur: The first would be the case of a community of property previously constituted as such, having a business activity, and to which the Administration granted a community of property NIF. At this time, your qualification has a double safeguard: the consultations of the General Directorate of Taxes and the administrative procedure that granted the NIF based on the documentation provided. Mr. Rufino de la Rosa continues by pointing out that a different issue is that of a civil society that was established as such and now wants to modify its classification, or the case of new registrations. Work is currently being done on this issue to achieve uniformity of criteria.
Mr. Jesús Fernández-Bravo Pinto takes the floor and states that he does not understand why freedom of choice is not allowed for taxation, in the attribution of income or in the Corporate Tax, to which the Director of the Management Department responds that because This is how it is included in the law.
Other attendees express their concern since the change affects points such as partner remuneration, accounting obligations, professional companies, etc. In relation to the latter, Mr. Rufino answers that, as he has previously said, the instructions that have been known are only a draft and that those that are currently being prepared already state that professional civil societies established under the Law 2/2007 has no commercial purpose.
Mr. José Luis Tonda Martínez takes the floor and comments on the problem they have in opening current accounts in the name of communities of property since financial entities have traditionally argued that they cannot do so because they lack legal personality. He adds that there are entities that do not have this objection and requests that the Tax Agency also prepare clear instructions on this issue to solve the problem. Next, ask about the document sent to the Technical Secretariat of the Forum by your College in relation to the preparation of the fiscal calendar for the 2016 financial year.
The Director of the Tax Management Department states that on the issue of communities of property he cannot add anything more and, regarding their legal personality, he points out that it is one of the issues that are being analyzed in depth.
Mr. Ángel Rodríguez then takes the floor and explains that in relation to the document sent by the General Council of Official Colleges of Administrative Managers of Spain, which he is grateful for, the position maintained therein is already known by the Tax Agency. He adds that work is being done on this issue and, in the absence of any clarification from the Collection area, there is difficulty in shortening the deadlines both due to internal IT needs of the Tax Agency and those imposed by collaborating entities. It informs that the Tax Agency has analyzed experiences of other Administrations and the conclusions have been that by making the direct debit deadlines coincide with the declaration deadlines, there is a delay in the effective date of payment in the direct debits. In addition, errors in account numbers, ownership, overdrafts, etc. increase, meaning that these five days are used to correct errors.
Mr. Jesús Fernández-Bravo Pinto intervenes to point out that in the 2011 and 2012 income campaigns the deadline was reduced to three days and that no exceptional incident occurred.
Mr. Miguel Lorenz Falomir, Deputy Director General of Coordination and Management of the Collection Department, takes the floor and states that when the deadline was reduced to three days, in the collection area they had problems in determining which due dates were under pressure. He adds that this work by financial entities that social partners describe as non-existent was evidenced by a significant increase in incidents compared to the same period of the previous year.
Mr. Juan Carlos Berrocal Rangel takes the floor and states that in a previous meeting of this Forum it was proposed by the social partners to extend the deadlines, that is, to move the entry deadlines from the 20th or 25th to the 30th. At that meeting the Tax Agency promised to study the proposal. He states that what social collaborators are looking for is a different perspective in the Tax Administration's collection system so that its instrumentalization through social collaboration is more peaceful, and adds that this is achieved by lengthening the deadlines. He comments that in the last 15 years the flow of information that they have to process has increased exponentially, that is, the workload that social collaborators have assumed is considerably greater and the possibility of making mistakes is also greater.
Mr. Ángel Rodríguez points out that with this proposal the problem of date is transferred, to which Mr. Juan Carlos Berrocal Rangel indicates that this is not the case, since the social partners would have 10 more days to make the direct debits. Mr. Ángel Rodríguez points out that deadlines are fundamentally a matter of budgetary policy.
Mr. José Luis Tonda Martínez adds that another problem that the Tax Agency should try to solve is that, especially in the case of communities of property and civil societies, financial entities do not charge the NRC to the account of any of the community members or partners. in batches alleging that it is not the same ownership.
Mr. Miguel Lorenz intervenes and clarifies that payment in batches is a service that a credit institution provides to its clients and that the only thing the Tax Agency could do is recommend to its interlocutors at the financial institutions that they try to solve this problem.
Mr. José Luis Tonda Martínez takes the floor to reiterate, as in previous meetings, the incidents that occur with the issuance of certificates of being up to date with payments, especially when there are postponements.
Mr. Miguel Lorenz points out that this matter is currently being analyzed and there is a draft of burden reduction measures that will be approved by the Council of Ministers soon with which it is expected to solve this issue.
Finally, Mr. José Luis Tonda Martínez and in relation to the problem that occurred in telematic access to the AEAT website on October 20, points out that, although the stoppage lasted one hour and nineteen minutes, when the service was restored Access was very slow and all procedures and shipments were very slow. He continues by stating that the same thing that has happened to the Tax Agency with its computer systems could happen to social collaborators, so he understands that the AEAT should reconsider and grant them again the two-day period that they had before to be able to resend the documents that had been left pending processing at the expiration of the deadline.
Mr. Ángel Rodríguez answers that he takes note of the request and, given that it, in addition to a computer aspect, also has a legal aspect, he proposes to analyze it carefully.
Mr. José Luis Tonda Martínez continues, stating that for an improvement in tax management it is necessary that in various matters specific agreements be reached between the Tax Agency, financial entities and social partners.
Mr. Ángel Rodríguez takes the floor and asks if there are any more comments. With no further demonstrations being held, the Technical Secretary of the Forum thanks everyone for their attendance and participation and concludes the eighth session of the plenary session of the Forum of Associations and Colleges of Tax Professionals.
The Technical Secretary of the Forum
Mr. Rafael Serrano Galán
The President of the Forum
Mr. Santiago Menéndez Menéndez