Minutes of the session

MINUTES OF THE PLENARY SESSION 2/2022

Minutes of the Plenary Meeting of the Forum of Federations and Associations of Self-Employed Workers
held on October 24, 2022

Members representing the Tax Agency

Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection

Mr. Javier Hurtado Puerta

Director of the Collection Department

Mrs. Virginia Muñoz Fernández

Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero Aranguren

Deputy Director General of Tax Technology - Tax Management Department

Mrs. Mercedes Jordán Valdizán

Deputy Director General of Tax Information and Assistance - Tax Management Department

Ms. Montserrat Rojo Riol

Deputy Director General of Applications - Tax Information Technology Department

Mrs. Cristina Alvarez Zazo

Members representing Federations and Associations of Self-Employed Workers

National Federation of Associations of Self-Employed Workers (ATA)

Executive Vice President

Mrs. Celia Ferrero Romero

Adviser

Mr. Javier Martin Fernandez

Union of Self-Employed and Entrepreneurial Workers Associations (Unión de Asociaciones de Trabajadores Autónomos y Emprendedores - UATAE)

Head of Tax Department

Mr. Antonio Garcia Gordo

Union of Professionals and Self-Employed Workers (Unión de Profesionales y Trabajadores Autónomos - UPTA)

Legal Officer

Mrs. Ines Mazuela Rosado

Technical Secretariat of the Forum of Federations and Associations of Self-Employed Workers

Deputy Director General of External Communication

Mrs. Maria Dolores Carreno Beltran

On October 24, 2022, the second plenary session of the Forum of Federations and Associations of Self-Employed Workers will be held, attended by the people mentioned, and in accordance with the following

AGENDA

1. Opening of the session.

2. Approval of the minutes of the meeting held on February 16, 2022.

3. Summary of the meetings of the Regulatory Analysis and Digitalization Project working group.

4. Assistance ADI in completing certain declaration forms (example: quarterly models of modules 303 and 131 and also census modifications).

5. Law 18/2022, of September 28, on the creation and growth of companies: It is mandatory for all business owners and professionals to issue, send and receive electronic invoices in their commercial relations with other business owners and professionals (electronic invoicing B2B ).

6. Next call: dates and topics to be discussed.

7. Other considerations, requests and questions.

1. Session opening

The session was opened by Mr. Ignacio Fraisero Aranguren, Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service, who, after welcoming and thanking those attending for their presence at the second session of the Plenary Session of the Forum of Federations and Associations of Self-Employed Workers, apologised for the absence of Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor, Director General of the Tax Agency and President of the Forum, who was prevented from attending the plenary session due to a last-minute unforeseen event. On the other hand, he points out that he wishes to highlight the constitution on 8 September of the working group on the tax regime for self-employed workers and SMEs, coordinated by the Institute of Fiscal Studies, and whose next meeting is scheduled for this week. He added that he was grateful for the proposals submitted by the associations and that the working group would analyse and debate their viability.

2. Approval of the minutes of the meeting held on February 16, 2022

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero gives the floor to Ms. Mª Dolores Carreño Beltrán, Deputy Director General of External Communication of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service and Technical Secretary of this Forum, who states that the minutes of the first plenary session were sent to the federations and associations prior to this meeting, and that no comments have been received; He adds that if there were none at this time, it would be definitively approved. Since no objection has been raised, the minutes of the first plenary session held on 16 February 2022 are hereby approved and it is announced that they will be published on the Tax Agency's electronic headquarters in the section dedicated to this Forum.

3. Summary of the meetings of the Regulatory Analysis and Digitalisation Project Working Group

In relation to this point of the agenda, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service points out that the working group has met on two occasions, on 11 May and 8 July, and that these meetings have been held jointly with the entities participating in the Forum of Small and Medium Enterprises. He added that the following issues were discussed at the meetings, among others: the processing status of the Royal Decree approving the regulation establishing the requirements that must be adopted by the computer or electronic systems and programs that support the billing processes of entrepreneurs and professionals, and the standardization of billing record formats, improvements in the assistance tools in the completion of Corporate Tax returns and the new collection functionality incorporated into the app  of the Tax Agency to streamline the request for deferrals, consultation and payment of debts.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero then gives the floor to Mr. Javier Hurtado Puerta, Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection, so that he can comment on the activity of the working group in his Department's area.

Mr. Javier Hurtado begins his speech by pointing out that at the meeting last May, a fairly extensive presentation was made of two articles that, in compliance with a mandate included in component 27 of the Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan, had been modified in Law 58/2003, of December 17, General Tax Law, in order to eradicate fraud due to the use of software for suppression and manipulation of sales. Thus, it was pointed out that the general lines of the draft Royal Decree approving the regulation establishing the requirements that must be adopted by the computer or electronic systems and programs that support the billing processes of entrepreneurs and professionals, and the standardization of billing record formats were the following:

• Universality, with some exceptions (those subject to the Immediate Information Supply system, certain operations that are taxed under the special regime for agriculture, livestock and fishing of VAT , etc.).

• The substantive content of the invoice is not altered and continues to be regulated by RD 1619/2012 on Billing Obligations, although some minor modifications are introduced.

• Its purpose is to regulate the way in which computer billing systems must comply with the legal requirements of integrity, conservation, accessibility, legibility, traceability and inalterability of records.

• It provides that for each delivery of goods or provision of services, a high billing record must be generated, simultaneously or immediately prior to the issuance of the invoice, regulating its minimum content. It also introduces two security elements: the hash chained together and the electronic signature of the issuing system.

• It establishes that computer systems must have the capacity to simultaneously or subsequently send billing records, adding that those that, in compliance with all the obligations imposed by the Regulation and the technical specifications established, are voluntarily used by the taxpayer to effectively send by electronic means to the Tax Agency in a continuous, secure, correct, complete, automatic, consecutive, instantaneous and reliable manner all billing records generated, will be considered "Verifiable invoice issuing systems" or "VERI*FACTU systems". It also states that the "VERI*FACTU Systems" will not be required to perform the electronic signature of the billing records, it being sufficient for them to calculate the hash of the same.

• It introduces the possibility that the person receiving an invoice can participate in the verification of the quality and integrity of their supplier's system, allowing them to compare the invoice received, using a code. QR contained therein, in the electronic headquarters of the Tax Agency.

• It determines that every computer system used to comply with the obligations contained in the Regulation must have a formal declaration of responsibility, issued by the producer, manufacturer or developer of the same, which ensures the commitment on the part of the latter that the legally established requirements are met, responding to those who acquire it or use it in their billing processes.

It was also noted at the meeting that many contributions had been received during the public hearing and information process and, as a result, changes had been made to the wording of the draft legislation, such as:

• Extension of the deadline for taxpayers to have operational computer systems adapted to the requirements established in the Regulation by six months, i.e. until 1 July 2024. For their part, the developers of computer systems must have them on the market within nine months from the publication in the BOE of the ministerial order issued in development of the Regulation.

• A stricter definition of "computer system" and "invoice" is introduced.

• Explicit exclusion of taxpayers subject to SII .

• The authorizations for not issuing invoices in certain cases granted by the Tax Administration Department remain valid.

• The wording of the verification powers is changed.

• Withholdings are not included in the high records.

It was also mentioned that the two options regarding the submission of data to the tax authorities by the taxpayer were maintained:

• Automatic sending of each billing record ("VERI*FACTU system").

• Registration without sending invoices, in which case at any time the AEAT may request and obtain a copy of the information.

To conclude the discussion at the meeting on May 11, the Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection points out that the participating entities made queries that were answered, although with the caveat that since it is not a current text, it would be necessary to wait for the publication in the BOE of the final text.

Mr. Javier Hurtado then comments that, on the other hand, at the meeting on July 8, his Department's intervention was briefer, limiting itself to pointing out some aspects that were still pending development of Law 11/2021 on measures to prevent and combat tax fraud. The importance for the Tax Agency of establishing the Register of extractors of fiscal warehouses of products included in the objective scope of the Tax on Hydrocarbons was thus highlighted, since organised fraud in the distribution of diesel and petrol was one of the most important quantitatively and the measure was intended to prevent the benefits of the regime from being used fraudulently, as well as to prevent this type of organisation from being able to participate in the marketing of these products. Finally, Mr. Javier Hurtado points out that other changes that were being processed in the General Regulation of the actions and procedures of tax management and inspection and development of the common rules of the procedures for the application of taxes, approved by Royal Decree 1065/2007, of July 27, were also mentioned at the meeting, such as the new way of calculating late payment interest in the case of supplementary declarations.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero then thanks the Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection for his presentation and gives the floor to Ms. Mercedes Jordán Valdizán, Deputy Director General of Tax Technology, so that she can continue with the presentation of the matters discussed in the meetings of the working group.

Ms. Mercedes Jordán points out that at the meeting held on 8 July, her department discussed, among others, the following issues:

• Improvements to assistance in completing the corporate tax return: It was commented that the objective was to offer the taxpayer tax data in a similar way to what happens in the IRPF . In this regard, it was added that the date for making these documents available to taxpayers had been brought forward, as well as the expansion of the information provided. The various support tools were also presented and a series of utilities were highlighted, such as the table of corrections to the accounting result, information on negative tax bases or filing notices.

• Value Added Tax: The modifications made to model 303 in order to adapt it to the new tax rates were pointed out, as well as the improvements introduced in the functionalities of the services that help with the preparation of the model, highlighting the “Portfolio of contributions to be offset” and the section for census data, which can be edited and modified depending on the period being self-assessed or the time at which the declaration is submitted. Particular emphasis was also placed on information that could be transferred directly to the declaration through the import of books.

• Regarding the regulatory projects in process, the legal developments arising from Law 11/2021 on the prevention and fight against tax fraud were discussed, especially those relating to virtual currencies and the Registry of Fiscal Deposit Extractors.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero then thanks the Deputy Director General of Tax Technology for her intervention and gives the floor to Ms. Virginia Muñoz Fernández, the new Director of the Tax Collection Department, so that she can comment on the issues discussed within the scope of her Department.

Ms. Virginia Muñoz points out that at the meeting of the working group it was mentioned that on July 4th the app  The Tax Agency has a new feature for the most requested procedures in the collection area, such as requests for deferrals and installments, debt consultation and payment of the same. It was indicated that it was primarily aimed at individuals and could be accessed by identifying oneself with the Cl@ve system. It was also noted that the functionality had a direct link to virtual assistants for tax collection (calculators for payment terms, interest and the amount of salary that could be seized), and that taxpayer identification was not required to use them. Finally, it was added that these procedures and services could also be accessed through the electronic headquarters of the Tax Agency.

The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service then thanks the Director of the Collection Department for her presentation and offers the floor to those in attendance in case they wish to ask any questions or comment on any matter. Since no interventions were made, he moved on to the next point on the agenda and gave the floor to Ms. Montserrat Rojo Riol, Deputy Director General of Tax Information and Assistance.

4. Assistance ADI in completing certain declaration forms (example: quarterly models of modules 303 and 131 and also census modifications)

Ms. Montserrat Rojo begins her presentation with the support of a Power Point presentation, and indicates that, in addition to addressing the issue included in this point of the agenda, she will make a brief summary of the different virtual assistance tools that the group of self-employed workers has at their disposal in the electronic headquarters of the Tax Agency, since, in her opinion, it is important to disseminate and make them known, given that they can be very useful. Thus, it indicates that two types of services can be distinguished: those of specialized information and those of assistance in the completion of certain forms. In turn, the first can be classified into three blocks:

• Virtual Assistance Tools: They allow taxpayers to obtain an immediate response 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Main features:

  • They have been designed for use by citizens, tax professionals and tax administration officials.

  • They provide greater certainty and legal security by offering the same response to all users who raise the same question (unity of criteria) and, although they are not binding, if the taxpayer acts according to what was communicated, their conduct would not be punishable in the event of a subsequent review of the administrative criteria that serves as the basis for the response.

  • The analysis of the questions asked allows us to quickly and efficiently identify the topics that generate the most doubts in order to be able to provide an immediate response of general scope.

  • They allow for the continuous improvement of accessibility to administrative procedures in order to facilitate the management of taxpayers and professionals.

  • The answer can be obtained in the co-official languages and in English.

  • The following types of tools can be distinguished:

    • Virtual Assistants: Based on artificial intelligence models, they allow the user to write the query they wish to ask. The assistant detects a series of keywords and, based on them, guides you through simple tasks, offering automatic responses that allow self-management. If at the end of the process the taxpayer obtains the information he was looking for, he is offered a copy of the conversation in PDF format. PDF  which will be sent to your email and filed in your electronic file. You need to identify yourself electronically. If, on the other hand, you do not obtain the information, you are offered two alternatives:

      • Contact ADI via chat if it is a simple query. The answer would be obtained immediately.

      • Register your query in the Informa + application so that it can be answered in writing after analysis by the Tax Agency staff. The service is limited to VAT , SII and censuses and the approximate response time is around 15 days, although the urgency of the consultation.

    • Informants: They are distinguished from assistants in that the user does not have a field to formulate their query, but rather they are offered information grouped into sections and, depending on the selections they make, they are guided. They are not based on artificial intelligence.

    • Others (calculators and search engines).

  • The following virtual assistance tools stand out:

    • In VAT : the VAT Virtual Assistant (AVIVA), the Virtual Assistant SII (AVSII), the Goods Delivery Locator, the Service Provision Locator, the Real Estate Qualifier (to know if the transmission of a property is subject to VAT or the Property Transfer Tax; Recently, a link has been included to the regional websites, the Prorata Calculator, the Differentiated Sector Calculator, etc.

    • In Census: the Activity Finder and its tax obligations and the Census Informant.

    • In IRPF : the Income Tax Return, the Income Tax Return for economic activities and the Virtual Income Tax Assistant for Real Estate (AVRENTA).

    The Deputy Director General of Tax Information and Assistance then presents a series of examples to illustrate the practical functioning of virtual tools.

  • The virtual assistance tools are accessible from the following sections of the electronic office:

    • From the “Access directly” section;
    • From the “All aid” section located at the bottom of the pages of the electronic headquarters of the Tax Agency;
    • From the sections dedicated to taxes and Censuses.

• Chat ADI :

  • It is accessed from the virtual assistants ( AVIVA , AVSII and AVRENTA ) and the informants (Census informant, Locator and Qualifier of VAT and Income Reporters). It is also accessed via the floating “Need help?” icon that appears on certain models.

  • Its use is indicated for simple issues and for completing certain forms.

  • Opening hours are from 9:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., Monday to Friday.

• Information +: It is a computer application that allows taxpayers to make written requests for tax information for VAT , SII and Census issues.

  • Requirement: be registered in the notification system.

  • Available for tax professionals, although it requires authorization.

  • The response is incorporated into the electronic file of the person requesting the request.

  • It is accessed from virtual assistants ( AVIVA and AVSII ) and informants (Census Informator, Locator and Qualifier of VAT ). Likewise, it is accessed directly through the following route of the electronic headquarters: Home/All procedures/Other tax procedures/Other/Request for tax information (INFORMA+).

  • Once the query has been made, the application offers the available information and, if it does not clarify the doubt, the query can be sent. The Tax Agency will respond in writing and send a notice to the user's mobile phone and/or email informing them that the response is available, which will be added to their electronic file. The response includes links to queries from the General Directorate of Taxes or references to INFORMA.

  • Legal effects: not binding (articles 86, 87 and 179.2 of the General Tax Law).

To conclude this section, the Deputy Director General of Tax Information and Assistance points out that around 8,000 questions have been raised by taxpayers and that more than 70% have been answered through virtual assistants and informants.

Ms. Montserrat Rojo then indicates that, as regards the second block of assistance services offered by the Tax Agency, there are those that provide assistance in the completion of certain forms:

• Services ADI :

  • Service ADI for the preparation and presentation of the model on behalf of the taxpayer through a telephone appointment, available for the following models:

    • Census: models 036 and 037.
    • Contributors in modules: models 303 and 131.

  • ADI service for resolving queries regarding completion via chat or telephone appointment.

  ADI assistance is accessed from the "Appointment" application and from the pop-up icon in the "Need help?" model itself.

• Programs to help prepare tax returns:

  • PRE-303: Available to all taxpayers, different services are offered depending on their profile. Its features include:

    • Automatic completion of data for those taxpayers who keep their books on computer according to the format established by the Tax Agency;
    • Census window VAT : contains relevant census information of the taxpayer in relation to VAT in the self-assessment period that is going to be submitted;
    • Portfolio of shares to be offset: table with information on the amounts to be offset from previous periods;
    • Possibility of marking that this is a supplementary self-assessment: In cases where the data is available, the system completes the amount and supporting document number of the self-assessment to be completed.

  • Basic model 390 for self-employed workers: It helps you determine the amounts and other information to be entered in the boxes of Form 390, provided that you pay taxes exclusively to the State Administration. This service can only be used by taxpayers who apply exclusively the general regime with a quarterly period and provided that during the fiscal year they do not apply prorata or differentiated sectors, do not carry out foreign trade operations, do not have clients who are in equivalence surcharge, are not included in the cash regime or are recipients of the same, do not have operations in which the reversal of the passive subject is applied, nor have satisfied compensations of the special regime of agriculture, livestock and fishing. If the taxpayer has any questions while completing the form, he or she can access assistance ADI through the pop-up icon "Do you need help?", where, among other options, he or she can request a telephone appointment to complete the form.

The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service then thanks the Deputy Director of Tax Information and Assistance for her presentation and highlights the important role that the entities represented at the Forum can play in disseminating among the group of self-employed workers the advances and improvements that the Tax Agency is developing in the area of virtual assistance tools.

Ignacio Fraisero then offers the floor to those in attendance in case they wish to make any queries or make any observations.

First, Ms. Inés Mazuela Rosado, representative of the Union of Professionals and Self-Employed Workers (UPTA), takes the floor to request the submission of the power point presentation used by Ms. Montserrat Rojo. On the other hand, he points out that it has been said that these services try to provide greater legal certainty, but, however, it has subsequently been indicated that they are not binding.

The representatives of the Tax Agency respond that the answers of the Tax Agency, although not binding, are binding in the sense that they are provided because, after an analysis of the administrative criteria that are being used, there is a conviction that it is the appropriate response. However, subsequent case law sometimes does not agree and it is in these cases where the taxpayer who has adapted his actions to the criteria provided by the Tax Agency cannot be penalized.

Next, Ms. Celia Ferrero Romero, representative of the National Federation of Associations of Self-Employed Workers (ATA), spoke. After congratulating the Tax Agency for the work carried out in relation to virtual assistance tools, she commented that not all self-employed workers have the same preparation and capacity to use the instruments discussed and that it would be very useful to have tutorials on how they work with demonstrations of practical cases.

Ms. Montserrat Rojo points out that on the Tax Agency's website there are links to the videos that the Tax Agency publishes on its YouTube channel and that there are currently several related to virtual assistance tools.

For their part, representatives of federations and associations point out that it would be interesting to have tutorials on virtual assistance tools in the management itself, that is, if you are preparing form 390 for presentation, it would be very helpful to have tutorials at that time on how the relevant virtual tools work. They also reiterate that having practical cases prepared in a more colloquial language would be of great help.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero points out that a review will be carried out of how many virtual assistance tools have tutorials on how they work and that a study will be made of whether it is necessary to prepare more.

Then, since no other interventions were made, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service gave way to the next point on the agenda and gave the floor to Mr. Javier Hurtado.

5. Law 18/2022, of September 28, on the creation and growth of companies: Obligation of all entrepreneurs and professionals to issue, send and receive electronic invoices in their commercial relations with other entrepreneurs and professionals (electronic invoicing) B2B )

The Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection begins his presentation by pointing out that Law 18/2022 represents a very significant change in the billing obligations, since it provides that, after the entry into force of the Law and the passage of the established transitional periods, the obligation of electronic invoicing B2B  will be universal (article 12). Mr. Javier Hurtado adds that electronic invoicing is not something new, but its universality and the requirements established in the Law are. Thus, it points out that electronic invoicing in Spain has gone through different stages which, in turn, allow for the following classifications:

• By its format:

  • Electronic invoice with unstructured format: currently in force, since there is no rule that requires a certain structure in the billing records.

  • Electronic invoice with structured format:

    • Private or agreed upon structured format between sender and receiver: widely used by large distributors (for example, automobiles).
    • Standard and interoperable public structured format ( B2G ).

• For its recipients:

  • Electronic bill B2G : Law 25/2013, promoting electronic invoicing in the public sector, establishes that all public sector entities, whether local, regional or state, receive their invoices through Facturae, with some exceptions (individuals and transactions with an amount of up to 5,000 euros).

  • Electronic bill B2B : Its obligation is established in Law 18/2022, on the creation and growth of companies.

  • Electronic bill B2C : Law 56/2007 on Measures to Promote the Information Society requires this to be mandatory for certain issuers and provided that there is consent from the recipient. There are currently companies dedicated to managing credit card payments that are working with the banking sector to develop a virtual ticket system.

Mr. Javier Hurtado continues his presentation by commenting that Law 18/2022 does not have a fiscal purpose, since it has been promoted by the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation in compliance with the Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan, one of its objectives being the modernization of the business sector, especially SMEs and self-employed workers, by promoting their digitalization; He adds that the Law addresses electronic invoicing in its article 12, although it also appears in other sections of its articles. Thus, the Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection points out that he will highlight and comment on the following provisions of the Law:

• Universality: All entrepreneurs and professionals must issue, send and receive electronic invoices in their commercial relations with other entrepreneurs and professionals.

• It establishes that the invoice must include information on the payment status: This is a new element that is not included in the regulations regarding billing obligations, but which the Law considers a key element in order to reduce commercial late payment. For the Tax Agency, this is an element whose technical and regulatory development is highly complex, since it involves converting the invoice into a dynamic element that is monitored until payment.

• The explanatory statement indicates that the two objectives that are intended to be achieved with the electronic invoice are:

  • Reduce transaction costs of commercial traffic.
  • Facilitate access to information on payment terms between companies. As already mentioned, this is a new piece of information to be included in the invoice.

• It provides that technological solutions and platforms offered by companies providing electronic invoicing services to entrepreneurs and professionals must guarantee their free interconnection and interoperability, which does not necessarily imply that the electronic invoicing service provided by the provider must also be free. Mr. Javier Hurtado adds that for the Tax Agency to develop an electronic invoicing service that takes into account all the profiles that make up the census of taxpayers would be a very complex task, the implementation of which, in principle, could not be prepared in the short term.

• It indicates that electronic invoices must comply, in all cases, with the provisions of the specific regulations on invoicing and that the computer systems and programs that manage the invoicing and storage processes of electronic invoices must comply with the requirements referred to in article 29.2.j) of Law 58/2003, General Tax Law, and its regulatory development. Thus, the technical solutions adopted in compliance with the provisions of Law 18/2022 must necessarily take into account and be combined with the measures included in the draft Royal Decree approving the regulation establishing the requirements that must be adopted by computer or electronic systems and programs that support the billing processes of entrepreneurs and professionals, discussed in the third point of the agenda.

• Final Provision 7 empowers the Government to develop the provisions of the Law and, in relation to article 12, indicates that the Ministries of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation and of Finance and Civil Service, within the scope of their powers, will determine the technical and information requirements to be included in the electronic invoice in order to verify the payment date and obtain the average payment periods, the minimum interoperability requirements between providers of technological solutions for electronic invoices and the security, control and standardization requirements of the devices and computer systems that generate the documents. The deadline established for regulatory development is six months. Likewise, it provides that the development will be carried out accepting as valid, at least, the list of syntax contained in the Implementing Decision (EU) 2017/1870 of the Commission, of October 16, 2017, on the publication of the reference of the European standard on electronic invoicing and the list of its syntaxes in accordance with Directive 2014/55/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council [XML CEFAT/UN (SCRDM – CII), UBL – ISO/IEC 19845:2015 and EDIFACT].

• Regarding its entry into force:

  • For entrepreneurs and professionals with a turnover of more than 8 million euros: one year from the approval of the regulatory development;
  • for the rest: 2 years.

To conclude his presentation, Mr. Javier Hurtado comments on the main characteristics of two options in terms of billing systems:

• Through a standard format EDI  for the direct exchange of information between two organizations electronically (point-to-point): The invoice (or any other document) is transmitted from the issuer's equipment, previously transformed to EDI format, to the receiver's equipment, where it is decoded and received.

• Through platforms provided by billing service providers: It follows the French model where the platform itself serves as a transmitter and receiver of information. A node platform (Chorus) is also contemplated, which can be used by suppliers or clients who, due to their characteristics, simply require minimum services that allow them to comply with legal requirements. With this platform, the transmission of information to the Administration is automatic. On the other hand, in the Italian model the platform is provided by the Administration.

The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service thanks Mr. Javier Hurtado for his presentation and comments that Law 18/2022 represents a challenge for everyone. He added that the Ministry of Finance and Public Administration will collaborate with the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation so that the regulatory development can provide consensual solutions to all the issues raised by the Law.

Next, Mr. Ignacio Fraisero offers the floor to those present.

First of all, Ms. Celia Ferrero pointed out that in the meetings they have held with the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation, the associations have always stated that from a technical point of view there are issues that seem inapplicable to them. He says that the self-employed are one of the most interested groups in combating late payments, but that it should be done in a way that is not so complicated. Another reason why they oppose the mandatory use of electronic billing systems is the financial cost due to the lack of free service platforms, and adds that one of the group's demands is that the Administration provide the billing platform. Finally, he points out that they are in favour of electronic invoicing, but not of the system that is being proposed.

Mr. Javier Hurtado responds that in the meetings held with the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation, the representatives of the Tax Agency have shown that the platforms work very well, but not for all business owners and professionals, since at present only a small proportion use electronic invoicing systems. Mr Javier Hurtado adds that, in his opinion, the cost of billing services will become cheaper as they become more widespread. The Commission also notes that the development of a universal, interoperable electronic invoicing system with payment method tracking is a highly complex task, given the ongoing supply of information that it requires. Lastly, he comments that, since the platform is not expected to be provided by the Administration, but is instead entrusted to the developer companies, it will not be free of charge.

Ms. Celia Ferrero intervenes again to indicate that it is not just that it has an economic cost, but that in order for the platform to be able to track the payment of the invoice, it will have to be given access permissions to the banking services of the businessman or professional, which means that, unless the financial institutions develop an application that limits access to the invoice payment data, there will be third parties accessing all the operations carried out by said businessman or professional through their bank account. Finally, the representative of ATA states that, in addition, all the amendments that were presented were rejected in the parliamentary procedure and that the associations that represent the group of self-employed workers will continue to insist on the introduction of modifications to the Law.

Mr. Javier Hurtado replied that one of the possibilities being considered is for financial institutions to provide a platform.

Ms. Inés Mazuela then intervened to indicate that she fully agreed with the comments made by the representative of ATA and that she considers that this is a very ambitious project, the implementation of which entails many difficulties. He adds that, however, UPTA is willing to work and collaborate so that, with everyone's contributions, greater consensus can be achieved and the project can move forward.

Next, Mr. Antonio García Gordo, representative of the Union of Associations of Self-Employed Workers and Entrepreneurs (UATAE), took the floor to comment that if the objective is to simplify bureaucratic procedures for self-employed workers, but, in the end, costs are imposed on them for compliance and requirements are added that translate into greater burdens, the result obtained is the opposite. He added that his organisation has always stated that coordination between the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation and the Ministry of Finance and Civil Service must be absolute.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero then points out that, without a doubt, electronic invoicing will contribute to the simplification of administrative burdens and reiterates that there will be close collaboration with the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation in the search for solutions to the current uncertainties. He added that the collaboration provided by the federations and associations represented at the Forum is and will be very useful.

Then, since there were no further interventions, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service moved on to the next point on the agenda.

6. Next call: dates and subjects to deal with

In relation to this point, Mr. Ignacio Fraisero comments that, as is known by all those present, this Forum has a clear vocation for permanence in order to serve as a permanent channel of communication between the tax administration and the entities that represent the group of self-employed workers. He added that, in this regard, the Forum's Rules of Operation establish the holding of two plenary sessions per year, although it has been noted that on occasions the content of the meetings coincides with that of the plenary sessions of the Small and Medium-sized Enterprises Forum. For this reason, the Tax Agency proposes to the Federations and Associations of the Forum the modification of said Operating Rules so as to include the possibility of holding joint plenary sessions of both Forums, when the subject matter allows it. On the other hand, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service indicates that, given that the work of the Forum is mainly carried out in working groups, a modification of the rules is also proposed to establish as obligatory the holding of a Plenary meeting per year, also reflecting the possibility that it can be convened on more occasions if one of the parties considers it convenient. Finally, Mr. Ignacio Fraisero reports that this proposal was also discussed with the representatives of SMEs at the plenary session held on 17 October.

The representative of ATA comments that, in her opinion, there would be no problem in making these modifications.

Ignacio Fraisero points out that the Technical Secretariat will submit a proposal to modify the Operating Rules so that federations and associations can submit their observations and comments.

Then, since there were no further interventions, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service gave way to the next point on the agenda.

7. Other considerations, requests and questions

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero offers the floor to those present in case they wish to make any comments and, since no one speaks, he thanks all those present for their attendance and closes the second plenary session of the Forum of Federations and Associations of Self-Employed Workers, saying goodbye until the next meeting.