Minutes of the meeting

Large Companies Forum

MINUTES OF THE PLENARY SESSION 2/2014

Vice-President of the Large Companies Forum

Director General of the State Agency for Tax Administration

Mr. Santiago Menéndez Menéndez

Members representing the Tax Agency

Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection

Mr. Luis Maria Sanchez Gonzalez

Director of the Tax Management Department

Mr. Rufino de la Rosa Cordon

Director of the Collection Department

Mrs. Soledad Garcia Lopez

Director of the Department of Aduanas and Excise Duties

Ms. Pilar Jurado Borrego

Central Delegate of Large Taxpayers

Mr. Ignacio Huidobro Arreba

Members representing Large Companies

ACERINOX

General secretary

Mr. Luis Gimeno Valledor

ACS

Head of Corporate Tax Department

Mr. Jose Miguel Moreno Perez

AMADEUS IT HOLDING

Deputy Secretary of the Board of Directors

Mr. Jacinto Esclapés Diaz

BBVA

Director of the Tax Department

Mr. Jose Maria Vallejo Chamorro

BANCO SANTANDER

Managing Director

Mr. Cesar Ortega Gomez

BANKIA

Tax Advice Director

Mr. Javier Mª Tello Bellosillo

LA CAIXA

Director of the Tax Area of Criteria Caixa Holding

Mr. Javier Paso Luna

CEPSA

Indirect Tax Manager

Mrs. Ines Martinez Merono

COFARES

Advisory Board of Directors

Mr. Luis Valdeolmos Gonzalez

Treasurer of the Governing Council

Mr. Eduardo Pastor Fernandez

EL CORTE INGLÉS

Tax Department

Mr. Jose Roberto Barroso Duke

ENDESA

Tax Advice Director

Mr. Carlos Arrieta Martínez de Pisón

FCC

Director of the Tax Department

Mr. Daniel Gómez-Olano González

GAS NATURAL FENOSA

Director of Taxation

Mr. Jaume Menendez Fernandez

GENERALI ESPAÑA

Director of the Corporate Control and Accounting Division

Mr. Francisco Javier Serna Ballarín

INDITEX

Director of the Tax Department

Mr. Andres Sanchez Iglesias

MAPFRE

Tax Advice Director

Mr. Antonio Lafuente Gonzalez de Suso

MERCADONA

Tax Division

Mr. Alberto Cubells Rodríguez Flores

MICHELIN

Fiscal Manager

Mrs. Rosa Maria Pena Garcia

NORFIN HOLDER

Fiscal Director

Mr. Jose Antonio Gibello Saiz

RENAULT ESPAÑA

Director of Tax and Customs Affairs

Mr. Felix Ruiz Madarro

REPSOL

Director General of Economic and Fiscal Affairs

Mr. Luis Lopez-Tello and Diaz-Aguado

SEAT

Director of Taxes

Mr. Francisco Javier Baulenas Setó

SIEMENS

Director of Taxes

Mrs. Ana María Moreda Galante

TELEFÓNICA

Group Tax Director

Mr. Angel Martin Gomez

VODAFONE

Tax Advice Director

Mr. Javier Viloria Gutierrez

Technical Secretariat of the Large Companies Forum

Technical secretary

Mr. Ángel Rodríguez Rodríguez

In Madrid, on December 2, 2014, the ninth plenary session of the Large Companies Forum was held, attended by the persons mentioned above, and in accordance with the following:

AGENDA

1. Session opening

2. Approval of the minutes of the plenary session held on June 17, 2014

3. Large Companies Forum: Current situation

4. Relevant conclusions of the different Work Groups of the Forum

5. Next call: dates and subjects to deal with

6. Other considerations, requests and questions

1. Session opening

The session was opened by the Director General of the State Tax Administration Agency and Vice President of the Large Business Forum, Mr. Santiago Menéndez Menéndez, who welcomed the attendees and apologized for the absence of the Secretary of State for Finance and President of the Forum, Mr. Miguel Ferre Navarrete, as unavoidable commitments prevented him from attending this event.

Firstly, it highlights the importance that the Large Business Forum has for the Tax Agency and thanks its members for the support received to improve the fulfilment of its objectives.

2. Approval of the minutes of the meeting held on June 17, 2014

The Director General of the State Tax Administration Agency gives the floor to the head of the Technical Secretariat of the Forum, Mr. Ángel Rodríguez Rodríguez, who points out that the minutes of the 8th session of the Plenary Session of the Forum were sent to its members and adds that no observations have been received and, if there were none at this time, it would be definitively approved. As no observations were made by those present, the minutes of the plenary session of June 17, 2014 are declared definitively approved.

3. Large Companies Forum: Current situation

Mr. Santiago Menéndez Menéndez briefly summarizes the tasks that have been carried out in the different Working Groups of the Forum:

Working Group on Analysis and Rationalization of Indirect Tax Burdens

It refers first of all to the SII Project (Immediate Supply of Information), which was presented at the information meeting on 5 November 2014, to which all members of the Forum were invited.

The Director highlights the idea that new technologies have to be an instrument at the service of the relationship between the Tax Administration and taxpayers; This does not mean that the materiality of this relationship changes: There is still a tax system, taxes to pay, management problems, the need to provide assistance and help to taxpayers for voluntary compliance, and control tasks continue to exist. These new technologies are a vehicle to help us in the relationship between the Tax Administration and taxpayers, since they collaborate in achieving the objectives of assistance in voluntary compliance and control.

The Tax Agency has analyzed the models of other Tax Administrations (Austria, Sweden, United Kingdom, Portugal, Mexico, Chile, Brazil, etc.), and from the study of these experiences and the examination of the reality of Spanish companies in their relations with the Tax Administration, the SII was created.

This is a model of assistance and help, but at the same time it implies a new obligation for companies, since they must send the billing information according to the specific technical specifications and within a maximum of 4 days from the issuance of the invoice in the normal process.

He adds that the SII Project aims to both assist taxpayers and improve tax control, and that in turn, it will bring a series of advantages for companies, such as:

• The simplification of formal obligations, since information obligations are eliminated (models 347, 340 and 390). On the other hand, the VAT record books will be kept through the Electronic Headquarters of the Tax Agency through the electronic provision of billing records.

• Financial advantages, since if the Agency has the aforementioned information on VAT in real time it will be able to carry out preventive crossings (control) and expedite returns of VAT to companies.

• Facilitation of control actions for companies and the Administration, since it will be possible to get closer to the reality of the facts over time.

• The Agency may draft the VAT declarations and the company will have to confirm.

• The Tax Agency will have information on its suppliers and customers, and the company will be able to make the appropriate comparisons through the Electronic Office.

The Director also stressed that this project requires an adaptation process for both the Tax Agency and companies, in addition to the development of IT products. This will involve some modifications in their management processes and investments, which, although they will not be significant compared to the functionalities and advantages of the system, may be a significant burden for SMEs and the self-employed. Therefore, it will only be mandatory for certain taxpayers of VAT (Large Companies and companies in REDEME), although others may benefit from the system voluntarily. There is an adaptation period, and it will be mandatory from January 1, 2017. However, at the meeting on 5 November 2014 it was reported that in order to facilitate the necessary adaptation for companies, a Working Group on the subject has been created and an optional pilot test will be carried out which in principle will begin on 1 January 2016.

Finally, he emphasises the key advantage of this project, which is that it will facilitate compliance and allow companies to compare the information in the Agency's databases. It will also allow for more fluid relationships that are closer to the reality of the facts at the level of assistance, control and management.

Cooperative Relations Working Group

The Director begins the presentation by referring to the analyses carried out by the Working Group on the use of the elements of cooperative relationships provided for in the General Tax Law, as well as the experiences developed by other countries in this area, having held a first FISCALIS workshop.

The Director General wishes to highlight that, in relation to this Group, the Tax Agency is committed to promoting this type of relationship, with the understanding that this involves seeking tools to reduce conflict between the Administration and the taxpayer, and to provide the taxpayer with means to avoid disagreements. All this while being respectful of the substance of the issues and, of course, of the forms.

This push is intended to be carried out by carrying out pilot tests during 2015, highlighting the instruments that already exist, such as the Code of Good Tax Practices, and analysing the regulatory changes that may be necessary to promote this cooperative relationship.

Work Group on Special Taxes:

The Director points out the most relevant issues that have been discussed within this Working Group:

In relation to the management of refunds of the Tax on Sales of Certain Hydrocarbons (known as the health cent), it is worth noting that at the request of the sectors involved, an application has been developed that allows the documentation to be submitted and the health cent refunds to be expedited. It is necessary to consider, that to carry out this application took a big effort, not only of execution of the programmes and computational processing, by the Department of Computer science, but also of coordination with the Service of Planning and Institutional Relationships, with the Department of Aduanas and Excise Duties, and with the Legal Service of the Agency among others. Furthermore, the application has been modified several times for improvement.

The different ways of proceeding, depending on the specific case, in the fractional payments of the communities of property in the Tax on the Value of the Production of Electric Energy were also discussed, the Draft Law on the Tax on Electricity was debated, various proposals were made to modify the Regulations on Special Taxes and the application of the internal EMCS (Special Tax Movement Control System) was positively assessed.

Working Group on Tax Regulation Analysis and Conflict Reduction:

The Director of the Agency points out the different topics discussed in this group:

• Contributions regarding the regulatory development of the current Article 18 of the Corporate Tax Law regarding documentation and evidence in transactions between fiscally related persons or entities.

• In relation to intra-group services, it was considered that the use of the net margin valuation method should be justified in those cases where its use has little consistency.

• Prior evaluation agreements and mutual agreement procedures were highlighted as ways to avoid conflict, pointing out the need for homogeneity of the criteria we apply so that there is coordination and no disproportionality.

• Reference was made to the presumed reform of the General Tax Law and the conflict in the application of the tax law.

• The recovery of state aid was reported as a result of the reaction of the European Commission, which it considers to be quite positive.

4. Relevant conclusions of the different Work Groups of the Forum

Next, Mr. Santiago Menéndez gives the floor to the Director of the Tax Management Department, who analyzes the Project for Immediate Supply of Information within the Working Group for Analysis and Rationalization of Indirect Tax Burdens

a) Working Group on Analysis and Rationalization of Indirect Tax Burdens: SII (Immediate Supply of Information Project)

Mr. Rufino de la Rosa Cordón, Director of the Tax Management Department, develops the project and points out, first of all, the analysis work carried out both on what is being carried out in other countries, as well as on what is to be implemented in our Administration. This is a proposal that combines the two objectives pursued by the Tax Agency: increase assistance service and control over the taxpayer.

In addition to the reduction of formal obligations, it is noted that the project will allow the Agency to transfer its actions from control to those other components that are more complex and in which there is a greater need for intervention, and those conducts due to material errors, declaration errors or imputations by the supplier or client, may be analyzed and corrected in time by the companies themselves. He points out other additional elements of the project, such as, for example, the inclusion of billing control through terminals at points of sale, simplified tickets or invoices or the extension of the payment period for tax returns, from the 20th to the 30th of each month.

As regards the Working Group to be formed in early 2015, with companies of various characteristics, he indicates that the Management Department will need the direct support of the Tax Information Technology Department. Likewise, companies must be aware that to be part of this Project they will need the collaboration not only of their billing and tax teams, but also of their technology teams.

The document then goes on to explain the process of transferring data in invoices issued and received, pointing out that the process for invoices issued is less complex than that for invoices received.

• Issued invoices: A model is being designed that consists of registration fields into which the information on the substantial data of the invoices is entered. To do this, we have based ourselves, on the one hand, on the standard of the and invoice (electronic) and, on the other, on the standard of model 340.

• Invoices received: The design of the model for these invoices is expected to be more complex and will be analysed within the Working Group.

b) Working Group for the Analysis of Tax Regulations and Conflict Reduction

Mr. Luis María Sánchez González, Director of Financial and Tax Inspection, begins by pointing out that the Working Group was created at the end of 2013. He added that the Group's objectives include being a permanent channel for two-way relations, providing greater legal certainty, raising questions regarding regulatory changes and clarifying ways of acting. All this is reflected in the Minutes of the Plenary Session of the Forum in October 2013. It also indicates that this group is the successor of another with great results, the “Transfer Prices” group, and that the start of this new group did not occur until November 20 of this year because its opening was not considered opportune given the development that the General Directorate of Taxes was carrying out on the Tax Reform Project. Also because it was considered necessary to delineate certain issues related to the reduction of conflict, the object of this Group, and in turn related to the scope of the "Cooperative Relationship" Group, and finally because situations arose that advised the inclusion of "transfer prices" in the agenda of the first meeting (new developments in the middle of the year, such as the modification of the regulations and some initiatives of the Project BEPS ).

At this meeting, a very positive exchange of positions took place between the Tax Agency and the companies, with its objectives being highly valued by both parties, especially the clarification of doubts regarding the application of the regulations.

The key issues discussed by the Group were:

• Documentation and proof of transactions between related persons or entities:

  The new features of Article 18 of the Corporate Income Tax Law were discussed. The Head of the National Office of International Taxation (hereinafter ONFI) also welcomed the fact that for the first time a law had introduced the principles of proportionality and sufficiency. These are principles of good practice that should inspire the development of the future Corporate Tax Regulations, as well as the practice of companies and the Administration regarding the documentation necessary to prove the market value of operations.

  Likewise, some of the modifications proposed in Article 18 of the Corporate Tax Law were appreciated, especially the one that raises the link to 25% in cases of partner-company relationships or the fact that the hierarchy between methods disappears or even that other methods can be applied other than those specified in the Corporate Tax Law.

  The issue of pending regulatory development, which is the responsibility of the General Directorate of Taxes, was also discussed. The express reference made by the Explanatory Memorandum of the Law to the Transfer Pricing Guidelines of the OECD and to the Recommendations of the Joint Transfer Pricing Forum in is highlighted. EU ##2##, and are established as elements that must be used in the interpretation of the precepts as long as they do not contradict the legal and regulatory regulations.

  The issues relating to the new country-by-country documentation , incorporated in this document published in July, were then addressed. There are two positions on the matter:

  • Using the mutual assistance mechanism to request documentation from the country of the parent company. This is the one that Spanish companies value most.

  • Regulation by the internal regulations of the respective countries to incorporate the possibility that documentation be required directly from the subsidiary.

  On the other hand, he adds that in the discussions on Action No. 13 of BEPS , the companies expressed their concern regarding confidentiality and the use of this information by the administrations of the states where the subsidiaries are established to make transfer pricing adjustments, when it is known that this is not the purpose of the country-by-country documentation , but rather to detect risks based on other information.

  The Director of the Inspection Department points out that these concerns are also shared by the Tax Administration, and highlights the open and proactive attitude of Ms. Begoña García Rozado, representative of the General Directorate of Taxes, who invites participating companies to express all doubts. and proposals that this country-by-country report could produce, as well as the opinions that may affect the Corporate Tax Regulation and all matters related to future conversations within the framework of the OECD .

  For their part, representatives of the ONFI made the following observations at the meeting:

  • Accounting adjusted to American criteria in foreign subsidiaries located in Spain; This makes conversion very difficult and causes verification to take longer.

  • Excessive tendency to use the transactional net margin valuation method without companies always justifying it as the best of all possible methods.

• Intragroup services :

  The matter was analyzed taking into account the future evolution of Chapter VII of the Guidelines, where there will probably be a special annex referring to intra-group services of low added value, in more detail than that which currently exists in the Recommendation of the Transfer Pricing Forum of the EU .

• Prior valuation agreements and mutual agreement procedures:

  Representatives of the Tax Agency and companies expressed a positive assessment in this regard at the meeting, as it is a preventive mechanism to avoid conflicts. The Head of the ONFI called on Spanish companies and parent companies to use this method whenever possible to determine their transfer pricing policy.

  On the other hand, in terms of mutual agreement procedures some issues are raised that do not constitute good practices, such as the fact that once these mutual agreement procedures have been initiated, documents are provided that were not provided when requested in the inspection procedure or the fact of proposing these procedures when the inspection procedures have been completed with minutes with agreement. The Head of the ONFI points out that these have only been specific cases. However, if these practices were to become widespread, it would be a problem to be solved.

• Other matters discussed at the Working Group meeting:

  The problem of cooperative instruments was analyzed, although they are dealt with in greater depth in the Cooperative Relations Group. Basically, the difficulty of separating the queries of the General Directorate of Taxes from the possible agreements or the possible information that could be provided by the Tax Administration was discussed.

  The issue of the conflict and its possible modification in the General Tax Law was also mentioned. Another issue was the recovery of state aid, on which it was not possible to provide any further information, as rulings from General Court of the European Union are currently awaited.

  Finally, it was considered necessary to define the issues that correspond to the Cooperative Relations Working Group and companies were asked to provide a list of issues that could be considered relevant regarding doubts about the application of the standard and other issues related to the objective of the Group. These questions, which would be sent to the representative of Telefónica for compilation, would be studied by the Tax Authority and, where appropriate, an assessment would be made of the extent to which it is possible to discuss and resolve some of them, and to provide some general criteria.

c) Excise Tax Working Group

Ms. Pilar Jurado Borrego, Director of the Department of Aduanas and Excise Duties in the first place develops the matters regarding the Retail Purchase tax of Certain Hydrocarbons (" health cent "). It highlights the difficulty that its management has entailed for both the Administration and the companies involved; The Commission also expresses its gratitude to the companies represented at the Forum, who have helped to facilitate the procedure, mainly by making it possible to use a type of card that has acted as an intermediary between consumption and supply.

He then points out that in the Tax on the Value of Production of Electric Energy a specific problem had arisen in fractional payments and, subsequently, in self-assessments, when communities of property had intervened. The Working Group discussed the solution that the Administration and the companies had jointly devised to resolve this situation.

It also refers to the new regulation of the Electricity Tax. He points out that the reform has modified the scheme, transferring the tax to those who sell and market electricity, that is, the supply of electricity for consumption is taxed. This not only makes management easier, but also simplifies the process, as it eliminates forms such as 513 and adapts self-assessment form 560, which includes fields to provide information related to the activity. Also noteworthy is the introduction of new reductions in the tax base, which are added to those made the previous year and which were introduced for large electricity consumers. These new reductions affect a wide range of recipients, which leads to higher costs and management problems, both for the Administration in its application and control, and for companies to the extent that we ask them for information. The 85% reduction will be applicable, provided that the requirements and conditions established by regulation on the amount of electrical energy to be used for any of the established uses are met, therefore the supplying companies must have the recipients clearly identified in order to apply said reduction. It then makes reference to the new reductions (agricultural irrigation and certain industrial activities) since the justification of the reduction assumptions will be carried out by submitting a responsible communication that the recipient company complies with the legal conditions. With this communication, the Administration provides a code, which will allow them to bill you with the corresponding reduction established by Law.

Finally, he stated that the Group's meeting also discussed amendments to the Excise Tax Regulations. An assessment was also made of the system for controlling the movement of excise duty products from its implementation in 2013 to 2014. The assessment of all the companies represented was positive, notwithstanding the existence of complications associated with recipients who benefit from a reduction or exemption, and which in the area of circulation, are those that can generate the greatest problems.

d) Cooperative Relations Working Group

Mr. Ignacio Huidobro Arreba, Central Delegate for Large Taxpayers, began his speech by pointing out that following the approval of the Conclusions Document on the subject of powers of information and reciprocal communication between the Tax Administrations and companies that took place at the end of 2013, the Working Group has continued its work, having met on three occasions this year: June 3, September 18, and November 25.

In these, the Working Group has addressed and assessed the following issues:

• The use of existing instruments of a cooperative nature (APAS, the aforementioned Conclusions Document, minutes with agreement, etc. ), making the following considerations:

  • There is the possibility of greater use of APAS, especially by groups with a national parent company, both in the area of transfer pricing and in relation to intangibles. Furthermore, the possibility of greater legal certainty in the minutes with an agreement in relation to aspects of the same that could be reproduced in the future was noted.

  • The use, already in practice, of the instrument of reciprocal information between the Tax Administration and companies, approved at the end of last year, was also noted. In this matter, the fundamental observation made by the Group was the fact that the response was not binding. However, the Tax Authority considers that this is a very powerful instrument that ends with a report from the Tax Agency Department involved in the matter. This circumstance, regardless of whether it is binding or not, is an approach that has sufficient importance and significance in the practice of the Tax Administration. Finally, the possibilities of the Tax Administration being aware of and assessing certain common solutions for the application of tax regulations by companies were assessed.

• Regarding the information actions of comparative models of cooperative relationship and compliance and the development and progress in our "model", the following reflections and actions to be carried out in the immediate future were raised:

  • A very positive assessment was made of the Workshop “Models of cooperative relationship” promoted and organized by the Tax Agency at the end of September within the framework of the FISCALIS Program, in which representatives of the Tax Administrations of the United Kingdom, Italy, Sweden, Holland and Australia participated, as well as representatives of two Spanish companies and two consulting firms, and of course, officials of the DCGC , and which was inaugurated by the Director of Financial and Tax Inspection. According to the Delegate, this initiative has enabled us to analyse and confirm more practical and at the same time more critical aspects of the functioning of these models, especially in countries around us, such as the United Kingdom and Holland, which have a higher degree of implementation.

  • It is appreciated that it is appropriate and appropriate to organize new workshops on this same subject, with the participation of other Tax Administrations, other companies and other consultants, in order to have a broader and more extensive vision of the operation of these models.

  • It is considered advisable to establish bilateral contacts with companies that have had experience in applying the cooperative model with other Tax Administrations, in order to analyse and compare their experiences.

  • It is considered advisable that officials from the Tax Agency carry out working visits to the Tax Administrations of countries that are applying cooperative compliance models.

On the other hand, Mr. Ignacio Huidobro highlights that a more practical and documented analysis of the commitments derived from the Code of Good Tax Practices will be addressed in the course of control activities, both by the companies and by the adhering Administrations, and in this sense the Administration committed to present a document to be analyzed by the Working Group.

It also notes that the Tax and Customs Control Unit of the Central Delegation plans to carry out informal actions during 2015 to assess the conditions of tax risk control of certain companies.

Finally, the Delegate stressed that the Working Group had raised the issue of processing and analysing a document submitted to the Group by some of the member companies, entitled “A proposal for a cooperative relationship”. This document proposes four lines of work in order to make the actions of the Tax Administration and companies in this area more operational: Mutual and reciprocal knowledge and actions in this regard, internal and external reciprocal communication on both sides, a new approach to inspection procedures and work on the design of relationship mechanisms.

5. Next call: dates and subjects to deal with

The Director of the Tax Agency points out that the biannual cadence of the Large Business Forum will continue and that all efforts and progress of all the Working Groups will be monitored.

6. Other considerations, requests and questions

Mr. Ángel Martín Gómez, representative of Telefónica, intervened and said that companies are very involved in the Cooperative Relations Group because they consider it to be the future of relations between the Tax Administration and companies. He then points out that he positively values the learning experiences of cooperative relations in other countries, highlighting the FISCALIS meeting, and calls for the next meeting of this Programme to take into account Latin American countries, where Spanish companies have a strong presence. Regarding the SII project, he said that it represents a significant investment for companies, but that it is a very positive initiative that is welcome. Regarding the Tax Reform, he points out that the Forum should have had greater dialogue and considers it necessary to produce a document to provide the opinions and claims of companies in the reform of the General Tax Law. It also points out the need to separate the subject matter of the “Cooperative Relations Working Group” from that of the “Tax Legislation Analysis and Conflict Reduction Working Group”, and for this Group to not focus so much on transfer prices but to also address the issue of the modification of the General Tax Law in the part that affects us, within what can still be done in this regard.

On the other hand, it expresses its disagreement and speaks also on behalf of the other companies, because the application of the effective rate of 5% to all multinationals has been established as an axiom. He believes that the Annual Collection Reports where this figure appears contribute to this. This information is collected together with other data, such as that the average rate for split payments is around 29.4%, that the growth in accrued tax is above 25%, and that split payments have increased by 20%, among others. However, since the 5% figure is repeated in the aforementioned Report, which is described as brilliant for its length and thoroughness, and since certain media outlets report this figure without any objective analysis in this regard, the position has been fixed in public opinion, which is detrimental to the aforementioned companies. They are therefore requesting a change of direction from the Tax Agency when preparing the Annual Collection Report, and are defending their request on the grounds of reciprocity, alleging the presence of the country's large companies when they have been needed.

The Director of the Tax Agency then responds, expressing his agreement that a draft be drawn up establishing internal rules for the operation of the Forum.

Regarding the issue of the effective rate of 5% in the Annual Collection Reports, he points out that the assessments are not made by the Tax Agency since it only provides the data. Assessments are made through the media. He alludes to the possibility of trying to be more explicit with the data that is offered or modified, better explaining its origin or the reasons for the change so as not to give rise to confusion or criticism, and adds that he is taking note to study how the problem can be solved.

Likewise, Mr. Santiago points out that the Tax Agency is sometimes involved by these same media in incongruous, inconsistent and absurd situations, and in these circumstances the Administration misses other voices, other than those of the Agency itself, and which reveal a position different from the one published.

On the other hand, Mr. Santiago Menéndez expresses his agreement with Mr. Ángel Martín and the companies he represents with regard to the cooperative relationship. He stressed the mutual desire to move forward on this issue, although he acknowledged that progress is slow and complicated. He also points out that it is time to analyse the experiences of countries such as the Netherlands and the United Kingdom, which, although they have different systems to ours, should study to what extent their models can be adopted. He points out that this is a good time to gather suggestions from companies on this matter and study them for inclusion in the reform of the General Tax Law.

Finally, it refers to the insistence of the Forum companies that it become the instrument of communication with the General Directorate of Taxes and their intention to achieve this as soon as possible so that it becomes a channel of communication.

Mr José María Vallejo Chamorro, BBVA representative, took the floor and pointed out that, in relation to the 5% figure, the problem is mainly faced by multinationals with headquarters in Spain, since this figure compares the group's accounting results throughout the world, without taking into account what it has paid in other places. An effort should be made to explain this, since the media creates an idea in public opinion that is neither real nor convenient for anyone. On the other hand, the data has already been published and it may no longer be effective to modify the statistics in the Report, but Mr. José María raises the possibility of making a public statement in some forum in which it would be highlighted that this effective rate of 5% does not represent the reality of the tax burden on companies. He then presents a reflection on the Forum's lines of work and points out that on the one hand the working groups have been quite effective, and on the other the evolution of the cooperative relationship that began with the Code of Good Practices is a reality. In this area, a lot of effort is needed, taking into account all the proposals and assuming that the most rigid environments will have less capacity for modification.

Mr. Santiago Menéndez takes the floor again and shows his agreement with what was stated by Mr. José María Vallejo, insisting on the need to move forward little by little but with results. Regarding the 5% figure, the Director insists that he takes note of their requests and comments.

Next, Mr. Javier Baulenas Setó, representative of SEAT, went on to present his comments. He pointed out that sometimes, in relation to the figures of large companies, it seems politically incorrect to say that they are doing well, and more voices are heard about companies that pay taxes in tax havens than about those that are contributing to this fiscal consolidation by means of quite drastic measures such as the reduction in the deduction of amortizations, the limitation on the compensation of taxable bases, the increase in fractional payments and a whole series of measures that we are accepting this year and even next year. He calls on the Agency to mention this in public forums and to make this reality known, thus slightly offsetting these negative measures.

Regarding the working groups, he comments that a lot of progress is being made and believes that the documents resulting from their work could be offered to the rest of the companies in the Forum so that they can contribute on this matter. Regarding the reciprocal communication tool that has been put into operation, he believes that if some instructions for use were communicated to some companies, it would be easier for them to use it and work with it.

The Director intervenes again and highlights that at the press conference for the presentation of the Tax Reform, the Minister and the Secretary of State insisted a lot on the recognition of large companies, pointing out that with the reform it was estimated that in two years there will be a reduction in taxes in all areas of 9,000 million euros, and they presented the evolution of the Corporate Tax distinguishing between groups and non-groups, between large companies and those that are not, and this is where the contribution of groups and large companies was reflected. Likewise, the Director highlights that this contribution is also observed in the voluntary collection that evolves, around 5% in homogeneous and liquid terms, above the growth of GDP , of any index of economic activity, and VAT itself. These cooperations between large companies are indeed valued positively, but the media does not report them. However, data such as the 5% figure are disseminated without exhaustive verification of the information.

Finally, he underlines the positive assessment that large companies in general have, and points out that the Agency sees these companies as entities with professional and highly technical advice.

Finally, Ms. Ana María Moreda Galante, representative of Siemens, spoke and appreciated the approach that has been perceived in recent times, especially in terms of information and dissemination. He points out that this closeness is manifested in various ways, for example, tomorrow a Forum will be held in Customs, a few days ago there was a presentation on the SII …; It is also reflected at the level of treatment and management, helped by new technologies that facilitate it. Ms. Ana María underlines this perception, which is common to all the companies she represents, and which also helps the cooperative relationship at other levels.

The Director, Mr. Santiago Menéndez, greatly appreciates this comment and appreciation, as it is the intention of the Tax Agency.

Finally, he thanks everyone and says goodbye until the next meeting.