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Minutes of the meeting

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Large Companies Forum

MINUTES OF THE PLENARY SESSION 1/2022

 
Logo of the Forum of Large Companies

MINUTES OF THE PLENARY MEETING OF THE LARGE COMPANY FORUM
HELD ON JUNE 21, 2022

 

President of the Forum of Large Companies

President of the State Agency for Tax Administration - Secretary of State for Finance

Mr. Jesus Gascon Catalan

Vice President of the Forum of Large Companies

Director General of the State Agency for Tax Administration

Ms. Soledad Fernandez Doctor

Members representing the Tax Agency

Director of the Tax Management Department

Mrs. Rosa Maria Prieto del Rey

Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection

Mr. Javier Hurtado Puerta

Director of the Revenue Department

Mr. Guillermo Barros Gallego

Director of the Department of Aduanas and Excise Duties

Ms. Mª Pilar Jurado Borrego

Central Delegate of Large Taxpayers

Mr. Manuel Trillo Alvarez

Head of Procedural Support Area - Department of Financial and Tax Inspection

Mr. Marcos Alvarez Suso

Members representing Large Companies

ACERINOX

General secretary

Mr. Luis Gimeno Valledor

ACS

Tax Advice Director

Mr. Alfonso Moreno Garcia

AMADEUS IT GROUP SA

Secretary to the Board of Directors

Mr. Jacinto Esclapés Diaz

SABADELL BANK

Deputy Director General Tax and Labor Advisory

Mr. Carlos Augusto Lazaro Rico

BANCO SANTANDER

Group Executive Vice President

Mrs. Carmen Alonso Peña

BBVA

Tax Discipline Leader

Mr. Manuel Diaz Corral

LA CAIXA

Director of Tax Advisory

Mr. Manuel Alfonso García Rodríguez

CEPSA

Fiscal Director

Mr. Alberto Martin Moreno

COFARES

Advisory Board of Directors

Mr. Luis Valdeolmos Gonzalez

EL CORTE INGLÉS

Director of the Tax Department

Mr. Luis Maria Sanchez Gonzalez

ENDESA

Head of Tax Affairs

Mrs. Maria Muñoz Viejo

FCC

Director of the Tax Department

Mr. Daniel Gómez-Olano González

GENERALI

Director of Accounting Department

Mr. Martí Jo Ruiz

IBERDROLA

Global Director of Tax

Mrs. Begoña Garcia-Rozado Gonzalez

MAPFRE

Tax Advice Director

Mr. Antonio Lafuente Gonzalez de Suso

MERCADONA

Fiscal Director

Mr. Rafael Hilario Lopez Villanueva

MICHELIN

Fiscal Manager

Mrs. Rosa María Peña García

RENAULT

Director of Tax and Customs Affairs

Mr. Felix Ruiz Madarro

REPSOL

Director General of Economic and Fiscal Affairs

Luis Lopez-Tello and Diaz Aguado

SEAT

Director of Taxes

Mr. Francisco Javier Baulenas Setó

SIEMENS

Director of Taxes

Mrs. Ana María Moreda Galante

TELEFÓNICA

Corporate Tax Director

Mrs. Isabel Flores Santamaria

VODAFONE

Tax Consulting

Ms. Gema de Frutos Rodríguez

Technical Secretariat of the Large Companies Forum

Technical secretary

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero Aranguren

The twenty-fourth plenary session of the Large Companies Forum will be held on June 21, 2022, with the attendance of the people mentioned above, and in accordance with the following:

AGENDA

  1. Opening of the session.
  2. Approval of the minutes of the meeting held on November 16, 2021.
  3. Planning and accountability of the Tax Agency.
  4. Summary of the different working groups of the Forum.
  5. Projects for the European Presidency 2023.
  6. Next call.
  7. Other considerations, requests and questions.

1. Session opening

The session was opened by Mr. Jesús Gascón Catalán, President of the State Tax Administration Agency (hereinafter, the Tax Agency) and Secretary of State for the Treasury, in his capacity as President of the Large Business Forum, who, after greeting those in attendance and thanking them for their presence, stated that he wished to thank those who preceded him in office for their determined support for the Forum's activities, which, although at times has not been as intense as they would have liked, has certainly made it possible to consolidate this project, which now has more than ten years of experience and which must continue to advance. On the other hand, she added that she would like to welcome to this Forum the recently appointed Director General of the Tax Agency, Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor, who is undoubtedly known to all those present as she has an extensive professional career in the tax administration. Since 2018, she has been serving as Special Delegate of the Tax Agency in Madrid and, previously, she had been President of the Central Economic-Administrative Court, Director of the Tax Management Department of the Tax Agency, Director of the School of Public Finance, Director in Spain of the EURO 2002 Campaign of the European Central Bank and Deputy Director of Tax Information and Assistance in the Tax Management Department of the Tax Agency.

Next, Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor took the floor. After greeting those in attendance and thanking those in charge who preceded her at the Tax Agency for their support of the Forum, she pointed out that, in line with what has been done so far, she wishes to express the will of the institution she represents to continue working within this framework of cooperative relations, so that a new model of relations between the Administration and companies can be put into effect. He added that, although much progress has been made since its establishment in 2009, it is undeniable that further progress can be made in this area and that his intention is to ensure that efforts continue to be made in order to achieve new milestones.

The President of the Forum then takes the floor to indicate that in the plenary session, after approving, where appropriate, the minutes of the previous meeting, the Director General and the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service will present various issues of interest regarding planning and accountability of the Tax Agency and, subsequently, the Directors of the Departments of Financial and Tax Inspection, Tax Management, and Customs and Excise Taxes and the Central Delegate of Large Taxpayers will present the results and perspectives of the different Working Groups. Mr. Jesús Gascón added that there will also be a brief presentation of the projects related to the 2023 European presidency.

2. Approval of the minutes of the meeting held on November 16, 2021

Mr. Jesús Gascón gives the floor to Mr. Ignacio Fraisero, Technical Secretary of the Forum, who points out that the minutes of the 23rd session of the Plenary Session of the Forum of Large Companies were sent to the members of the Forum as documentation attached to the notice of the present plenary meeting and adds that, since no observations have been received and if there were none at this time, it would be definitively approved. As no observations were made, the President of the Forum declared the minutes of the plenary session of November 16, 2021 approved.

3. Planning and accountability of the Tax Agency

The Director General of the Tax Agency begins her presentation by pointing out that she will limit herself to outlining the general lines, since it will be the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service who will develop this point. He added that, as everyone present knows, the Tax Agency publishes the organisation's planning and results on its website and on the Transparency Portal. The 2020-2023 Strategic Plan is updated annually by means of an Addendum, which seeks to adapt the Plan to an environment in which technological advances and new business models are producing permanent changes in society. Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor continued her intervention by indicating that the Strategic Plan includes seven indicators, which attempt to measure the evolution of the results of the actions of the Tax Agency in the medium term, and that she wishes to highlight the following:

  • Broadening of the tax bases: The results in 2021 have continued to develop positively, as domestic demand has grown by around 8% while the aggregate tax bases have grown by 12.7%.

  • Tax conflict: In 2021, it was below 2%, maintaining a downward trend in the medium term.

At this point, the Director General announces that the Tax Agency will begin working on the development of a new strategic plan for the period 2024-2027, in order to continue the current one, which ends in 2023.

Regarding the annual planning of the Tax Agency, Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor highlights the following:

  • The objectives that reflect the main contribution of the Tax Agency to the State's non-financial income, gross and net revenue, have been positively met in 2021.

  • Regarding the number of actions carried out in 2021, which includes both preventive actions and subsequent control, compliance has exceeded 100% in most of the indicators that make up the first level of the Objectives Plan.

  • As for the new features of the Objectives Plan for 2022, it is worth highlighting the reformulation of all the indicators that measure the information and assistance actions carried out, to reflect, on the one hand, all the non-face-to-face channels through which the Tax Agency provides information and assistance services, as well as the very important role played by the new ADIs, the Comprehensive Digital Assistance Administrations.

To conclude her presentation, Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor comments that at the previous plenary session of the Forum it was announced that, in compliance with the commitments assumed by Spain in Component 27 of the Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan, a provisional evaluation of the application of Law 11/2021, on measures to prevent and combat tax fraud, is planned to be carried out in the 4th quarter of 2022. He added that the Technical Secretariat will request the collaboration of the entities represented in the Forum so that they can transmit to the Tax Agency their observations on the different measures contained in Law 11/2021, both those that are considered correct and those that are susceptible to improvement and, even, those whose results have not been as expected and which it would be desirable to redirect. Finally, the Director General would like to thank companies in advance for their cooperation in this task.

He then gives the floor to Mr. Ignacio Fraisero Aranguren, Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service, so that he can develop this point of the agenda in more detail.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero begins his speech by reiterating what the Director General had said regarding the Tax Agency's commitment to transparency, as evidenced by the publication of the 2020-2023 Strategic Plan, its 2022 Addendum, the 2022 Objectives Plan and the reports of the Internal Audit Service on the evolution in 2021 of the indicators included in the 2020-2023 Strategic Plan and the analysis and evaluation of compliance with the Objectives Plan in 2021, respectively. Thus, he indicates that in the development of this point of the agenda he will use as support a presentation in power point and adds that, without wishing to be exhaustive in his presentation, he wishes to highlight the following aspects in relation to the planning and accountability instruments of the Tax Agency:

  1. Regarding the Strategic Plan 2020-2023 and its Addendum for 2022:

    • "Focus Enhancement" behavioural insights ", which consists of using techniques to analyse taxpayer behaviour in order to facilitate voluntary compliance and minimise involuntary errors.

    • Promoting the cooperative relationship model: In 2022, the Small and Medium-sized Enterprises Forum and the Forum of Federations and Associations of Self-Employed Workers were established in order to institutionalize the relationship with these groups and have an agile and fluid channel of communication. Within the framework of these Forums, work is being done on the preparation of two Codes of Good Tax Practices which, in a manner similar to the Code approved within the Forum of Large Companies, will allow the parties to express their commitment to the voluntary compliance of tax obligations on the basis of mutual trust, and with the aim of promoting legal certainty, the reduction of conflicts, assistance services for SMEs and self-employed workers, training for these groups, as well as transparency and the prevention and fight against tax fraud. Two working groups have also been set up, each dedicated to promoting the development of digitalisation projects for these groups, as well as analysing their tax regimes to ensure their adaptation to economic reality.

    • A list of notices and warnings that will be generated when filing Form 200 is made available to corporate tax payers and will allow them to correct certain unwanted errors.

    • New reporting obligations on virtual currencies, located both in Spain and abroad: established by Law 11/2021, are pending regulatory development.

    • E-commerce: the approval by the European Union of the package VAT of e-Commerce, which came into force on 1 July 2021, has brought about new reporting obligations for digital platforms, as well as a new customs declaration, as the exemption for low-value imports has been eliminated.

    • Development of the NIDEL project, aimed at the analysis and detection of money laundering networks. This is a tool that combines criminal network analysis technologies with Big Data, allowing the detection of people with increases in assets of unknown and unjustified origin.

  2. Regarding the evolution in 2021 of the multiannual indicators of the Strategic Plan 2020-2023:

    • Broadening of the tax bases: This indicator analyses the evolution of the aggregate tax base in comparison with that of nominal domestic demand, since it has been considered to be the data that most faithfully reflects the country's fiscal behaviour. Thus, since 2016, the aggregate tax bases have shown increases greater than those of nominal domestic demand, with an accumulated differential for the period 2016-2021 of 11.8%. However, although these results could be indicative of an improvement in voluntary compliance, it must be taken into account that there are other factors that also affect the comparison.

    • Measuring induced effects: The Strategic Plan establishes that the effects on voluntary compliance motivated by the actions of the Tax Agency must be measured and evaluated. Thus, comparing the previous and subsequent behaviour of taxpayers subject to an inspection with that of all taxpayers, it can be seen that the former increase their tax revenues in the following three years to a greater extent than the rest of taxpayers; Specifically, for those inspected in 2018, the increase in the net balance of their self-assessments was 23.5%, compared to an increase of 13.1% for all declarants.

    • Analysis of the evolution of the calculation base consistent with the improvement in tax compliance: The calculation basis, without taking into account extraordinary results, has maintained stable figures since 2015 (around 8.5 billion euros), although in 2021 it has reached 10.5 billion euros. So we will have to see what happens in the coming years to see if this trend continues or returns to normal figures.

    • Improve efficiency: This indicator is the quotient resulting from dividing the budget expenditure represented by the Tax Agency by the net tax revenue managed by the organization in a given year. Thus, in 2021, a ratio of less than 0.7% (0.68%) was recovered, in line with previous years, with the exception of 2020, when the pandemic had a significant impact on the activity of the Tax Agency and this indicator reached a ratio of 0.77%.

    • Collection-managed debt: This indicator relates the amount of managed debt with respect to the manageable debt in the executive period for a given year. Thus, in 2021 the percentage was 0.92%, in line with what was foreseen in the Strategic Plan (equal to or greater than 0.90%). Furthermore, in 2021 the debt suspended due to bankruptcy proceedings or appeals has decreased by around 900 and 500 million euros, respectively.

    • Tax conflict: Relative conflict shows a decrease from 2.21% in 2017 to 1.95% in 2021.

    • Reduction of interest paid: The evolution since 2014 has been consistent with the objective set out in the Strategic Plan, since the reduction in the amount of interest paid has been maintained, despite occasional increases in 2019 and 2021.

  3. Regarding the analysis and evaluation of compliance with the Objectives Plan in 2021:

    • The two objectives that reflect the main contribution of the Tax Agency to the State's non-financial income, gross and net revenue, have had a compliance level of 100.9% and 100.7%, respectively. Thus, net tax revenues have been 15.1% higher than in 2020 and, for its part, gross collection has been 11% higher than in the previous year.

    • In the rest of the indicators, 100% compliance has been achieved and even exceeded in most of those that make up the first level of the Objectives Plan, although with some exceptions, such as the use by users of the Tax Agency app, the collection of electronic contact data, prevention and control actions affected by health restrictions, etc.

To conclude his speech, Mr. Ignacio Fraisero pointed out that, as the Director General has already indicated, the indicators that measure information and assistance actions have been reformulated in order to reflect all the channels through which the Tax Agency provides these services (telephone calls, chat, video calls, virtual assistants, etc.), as well as the role played by the ADI (Comprehensive Digital Assistance Administrations).

Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor then thanked the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service for his intervention and offered the floor to those present in case they wished to ask any questions or make any comments.

Firstly, Mr Daniel Gómez-Olano González, representative of FCC, takes the floor to raise two questions. The first, in relation to the broadening of the tax bases and its relationship with the reduction of the tax gap, asks whether there is any estimate of what the latter entails, especially as it affects large companies, and whether it is a more or less measurable objective, being aware of the complexity involved. Secondly, regarding the approach behavioural insights and the cooperative relationship model , asks about the parameters that are taken into account in determining cooperative compliance by companies.

Mr. Jesús Gascón, in relation to the fiscal gap, answers that, when the Strategic Plan was being prepared, one of the topics up for debate was, precisely, whether it was possible to measure the gap directly or whether it was preferable to monitor the evolution of the most significant tax magnitudes and compare them with the evolution of the macroeconomic magnitudes most directly related to those in order to, indirectly, determine whether tax compliance improved over time. Thus, he adds that the second option was chosen since only one harmonized study on VAT was available at European level, where, by the way, the Spanish position was much better than is usually thought, without prejudice to the fact that there is room for improvement. He also points out that in the IRPF the studies have just begun and are not yet public, but it is expected that Spain will be in the European average. As for corporate tax, a formula that applies to all 27 countries of the European Union is still far from being found, and there is currently a methodological debate on how to compare a tax that is so erratic in its collection as a result of changes in the economic situation. Thus, the Secretary of State for Finance reiterates that it has been decided to compare, as frequently as possible, the evolution of tax revenues, and especially that of the taxable bases since they are less affected by regulatory changes, with the evolution of the macroeconomic magnitudes most closely related to them, such as nominal and, above all, nominal domestic demand. The results show that in the last six years the performance of the tax bases has been better than that of domestic demand, even in 2020 and 2021, both of which were quite atypical: 2020 for well-known reasons and 2021 because there have been sectors that quickly recovered their normal activity while others, such as those related to tourism, have not yet reached the levels of 2019. He added that it will be necessary to wait to determine how much of this improvement in tax behaviour is structural and how much is temporary and tends to be corrected in the future. On the other hand, Mr. Jesús Gascón highlights that the effort made by the Tax Agency in recent years to promote voluntary compliance has been very important and that initiatives such as the transfer of data, drafts and notices when completing the declarations, initially in Personal Income Tax and that have been extended to other taxes such as VAT (with the implementation of SII ) or Corporate Tax (with WEB Companies), contribute to voluntary compliance by the taxpayer. He also points out that another factor that abounds in this aspect comes from the data provided by the Bank of Spain, which states that, as a consequence of the pandemic, the use of credit cards has intensified to the detriment of cash withdrawals from ATMs. Currently, amounts paid by card are 80% higher than those withdrawn from ATMs, while before the pandemic the percentage was 30%. He adds that, however, it is difficult to draw conclusions from years with such high variability and that we will also have to wait to see how it evolves. On the other hand, Mr. Jesús Gascón clarifies that, as regards the underground economy, it is a mistake to identify it as “lost revenue”, since it includes illegal activities that, evidently, cannot be regularized and that, in addition, it also includes subsistence activities that, given the existence of exempt minimums and fiscal incentives, would never be taxed. The Agency is also responsible for managing approximately 45% of total tax revenues, as they include social security contributions and other taxes and fees that are not managed by the Tax Agency but are considered in determining the tax burden. Finally, the President of the Forum points out that tax fraud, in the sense of concealing transactions, is not what usually occurs in the field of large companies, where controversies arise in the application of the tax system, with different interpretations of the regulations, and in tax planning.

Next, Mr. Ignacio Fraisero takes the floor to point out that the approach “ behavioural insights” In general terms, it is based on analysing the behaviour of the taxpayer when faced with completing a tax form, so that, by establishing certain warnings, he is prevented from making unwanted errors that could subsequently lead to intervention by the Tax Agency.

Next, Mr. Javier Hurtado Puerta, Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection, intervenes to point out that there are many studies on the subject and that the Tax Agency's project is based on preventing the taxpayer from incurring unwanted risks, by offering them two types of information: The first is objective information that is contained in the Administration's databases, so that the taxpayer is aware of it; the second type of information, more elaborate, the Administration's criteria for completing a certain piece of information, but allowing it to complete it as it deems appropriate.

Next, Ms. Begoña García-Rozado González, representative of IBERDROLA and collaborator of the Technical Secretariat of the Forum, took the floor to, firstly, congratulate Mr. Jesús Gascón and Ms. Soledad Fernández on behalf of the companies for their recent appointments. He then asks whether the Tax Agency has separate data on disputes arising from discrepancies in interpretation and those arising from tax fraud activities and entailing sanctions. On the other hand, he asks whether the Tax Agency will send them an email in relation to the request for collaboration on the evaluation of Law 11/2021.

The Director General of the Tax Agency replied that, indeed, an email would be sent from the Technical Secretariat of the Forum.

Mr. Jesús Gascón then adds, in relation to this issue, that component 27 of the Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan includes a series of measures and actions to prevent and combat tax fraud, as well as some indicators of no small importance, resulting from discussions with the European Commission, and on whose compliance depends, among other things, the release of European recovery funds in favour of Spain. Thus, it indicates that the report on the application of Law 11/2021 must be carried out in the 4th quarter of 2023, but that, following the European Commission's methodology in this type of work, a provisional evaluation will be presented in the 4th quarter of 2022. In addition, he points out that the Tax Agency wants to produce a comprehensive report, not limited only to what Law 11/2021 includes, but also to what it does not include, that is, it will try to open the debate to everything related to the General Tax Law and its implementing regulations. He added that a public consultation had been considered, but this had been ruled out because it was very possible that a significant part of the proposals received would have more to do with tax reform issues, moving away from the objective of the consultation. However, it has been decided to hold a public consultation in which the different centres that make up the State Secretariat for Finance, the Cooperation Forums established by the Tax Agency with different groups (Large Companies, Tax Associations and Professionals, Small and Medium-sized Companies and Self-Employed Workers) will participate and which will also include contributions from the Tax and Competitiveness Foundation and the Foundation for Research on Law and Business (FIDE).

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero then intervened to indicate that, in relation to the first question raised by the representative of IBERDROLA regarding the conflict, the Tax Agency prepares an internal report that includes this information, but that it does not have the specific data at this time.

The Secretary of State then points out that, in the area of inspection, the main explanation for the reduction in conflict is the increase in compliance reports and reports of agreement. He adds that in the case of non-compliance reports, the percentage of appeals or claims is higher and that around 5% are subject to cancellation, either totally or partially.

Mr. Manuel Trillo Álvarez, Central Delegate for Large Taxpayers, then comments that the minutes with agreement and conformity represent 80% of those signed within the scope of the Central Delegation and that, therefore, discrepancies are only raised in 20% of cases, although the volume of minutes appealed is 18%. That is, 2% of the disagreement reports are not appealed.

Since there were no further interventions, the President of the Forum moved on to the next point on the agenda.

4. Summary of the different working groups of the Forum

The Secretary of State gives the floor to the Director General of the Tax Agency, so that she may introduce the persons responsible for presenting the work carried out by the various working groups.

Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor indicates that during the first half of 2022 the four working groups of the Forum have continued with their usual activity and each of them has held a meeting.

He then gives the floor to Mr. Javier Hurtado Puerta, Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection, in order to comment on the activity of the working group on Analysis of tax regulations and reduction of conflicts .

Mr. Javier Hurtado began his speech by saying that he was delighted to have been able to return to the in-person format of plenary sessions. He added that there is also another novelty in this Plenary Session, which is the fact that there are new incumbents both in the Presidency and in the General Directorate of the Tax Agency.

At this point, Mr. Jesús Gascón comments that, speaking of news, the Forum has a new member, Banco Sabadell, whom he would like to welcome.

The Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection then continued his presentation by pointing out that a meeting of the working group was held in the first half of the year, specifically on June 1, in which, among other issues, the Deputy Director General of Legal Regulation and Legal Assistance presented the legal foundations of the calculation engine of model 220 or the WEB Company Assistance System adapted to consolidated groups. It was explained that the system's operation was based on the proportional criterion in the application of tax credits, taking into account negative tax bases and deductions, and both for the entry and exit of entities from the group and for their permanence. The Deputy Director General of Legal Order explained during the meeting that this criterion was based on the literal interpretation of articles 67.e), 71.2., and 74.1. of the Corporate Tax Law, in which the first two articles mentioned set the limits on the application of the consolidated tax bases and the pre-consolidation deductions of a company that is integrated into the group, while 74.1. It refers to the situation of those companies that lose the consolidation regime, leaving tax credits pending. Thus, it was pointed out that the Tax Agency understood that, if a proportional criterion had to be applied upon the departure of an entity from the group, it would also have to be applied during the period in which it remained in the group. Furthermore, the same criteria would apply to pre-consolidation tax credits. On the other hand, it was also indicated that Consultation 205-2002, of February 8, of the General Directorate of Taxes, although with a Corporate Tax law different from the current one, interpreted an article that literally said the same thing as the current article, also opting for the proportional criterion. Thus, Mr. Javier Hurtado comments that at the meeting there were companies that stated that they disagreed with this criterion and were not applying it in their liquidations, which has motivated an internal rethinking by the teams working on the project, eliminating the obligation to apply proportionality, although the program is going to propose it, since it is based on the Administration's criterion, although it allows a different one to be applied. Finally, the Director of the Inspection Department adds that this project is of utmost importance so that the Tax Agency can continue to make progress in the area of simplification, which he will explain when discussing the activity of the working group for the Analysis and rationalization of indirect tax burdens.

Next, Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor opens a round of interventions.

First of all, Mr. Luis López-Tello y Díaz Aguado, representative of REPSOL, took the floor to thank the Tax Agency for its flexibility in eliminating the obligation to apply the proportionality rule. He added that they had faced serious problems because for more than 20 years they had been applying a different criterion, sometimes validated by inspections, and they had been forced to redo all the internal compensation calculations for these years, even taking into account that there are companies that have left the group. Thus, he points out that, for his part, there is no objection to applying the criterion of proportionality, provided that it is in the future, but without having to recalculate past events. Furthermore, in his opinion, it makes no sense to generate a conflict on an issue that will have little or no impact on tax collection.

Mr. Javier Hurtado answers that he agrees with what he has just said, but that, nevertheless, it must be taken into account that Spain has more than 6,000 consolidated groups, with 35,000 companies that form part of them, and that when the Tax Agency considers addressing a system of assistance for the preparation of group declarations, it must take into consideration a rule applicable throughout the national territory. Thus, the current rule has been applied from a legal point of view and is the same one that has existed for more than 20 years. On the other hand, regarding the comments made about the inspection bodies having validated different criteria, Mr Javier Hurtado points out that he is aware of the existence of cases in which this has not been the case. On the other hand, it indicates that, although the Administration's criteria is the same, the system will obviously be offered starting with the 2021 Corporate Tax campaign. He added that the new system allows for closer monitoring of tax credits, not only for the Administration, but also for the group itself.

The IBERDROLA representative then took the floor to comment that it should also be taken into account that the distribution of a deduction among the companies in a group will result in very small amounts remaining pending, but that, nevertheless, in the end the pages of the declaration increase.

Mr. Manuel Trillo then intervened to reiterate what Mr. Javier Hurtado had said regarding the fact that the functioning of the system must be based on a general rule that can be applied to all groups. In this regard, he points out that we must be aware of the existence of "businesses" that consist of the assembly and dismantling of groups, and to which the Tax Agency must pay special attention. Thus, with the new system, greater traceability is achieved, which makes it possible to know who enters the group and how, who leaves it and how, and when. In other words, the Tax Agency has had to take into consideration multiple and varied aspects when designing the tool, but which, in its opinion, does not have to lead to conflicts with the companies involved.

Mr. Daniel Gómez-Olano then took the floor to point out that he agreed that this was not an issue that affected tax collection, but that, in the opinion of many of those present, the worrying thing was that it had no legal basis. Thus, regardless of what the General Directorate of Taxes may have stated at the time, the fact is that the Tax Agency, through the application of a criterion that is, at the very least, debatable in law, has opted to include a settlement engine that, in some way, is biasing the taxpayer's criteria since, ultimately, said calculation engine is applied by default, so that if a different criterion is to be applied, it is necessary to look for the box or option that allows the desired criterion to be adopted. The FCC representative adds that with this system the Tax Agency is, in a way, becoming a regulator and that the correct procedure to act in the face of a criterion that is not considered adequate would have been to request a legislative modification. Finally, he reiterates that this is not an innocuous issue for the future, as many of the entities present are concerned, beyond the management problems discussed, about the fact itself, since it is not compatible with what, in his opinion, should be good administration.

Mr. Javier Hurtado responds that he has to contradict him, since it is not an invented criterion, but is based on the opinion of the General Subdirectorate of Legal Order, that of the Central Unit for the Coordination of Consolidated Groups and that of the General Directorate of Taxes. He added that, if there were contradictory jurisprudence or doctrine, given the versatility of its application, the Tax Agency would change it immediately. However, he indicates that the system only proposes the criteria that are applicable, but allows anyone who considers that they are not, to use the one they consider appropriate. He added that the Central Delegation has also been consulted and shares the same criteria.

The representative of REPSOL once again takes the floor to indicate that he fully understands the interest of the Tax Agency in knowing what the outstanding tax credits are, but that, in the case of practices characterized by widespread good faith and validated by the Administration in the past, rectification is now impossible or very complicated. He adds that, in his opinion, one way to avoid conflict on this issue would be to not review prescribed or already validated exercises, requiring the application of the rule from then on.

Mr. Javier Hurtado replied that he agreed, but that, in his opinion, it is not a theoretical issue, but rather a problem of practical application in which, of course, there is agreement that this will be done in the future.

The Central Delegate then intervened to point out that he does not believe that this issue could be a problem in the relations between large companies and the Administration. He adds that, in addition, the collaboration of companies will be very useful for the Tax Agency when it comes to being able to know more quickly the traceability of certain pending tax credits, since it is necessary to take into account how complex it is to obtain this information, especially taking into account that in many cases they fall on situations whose origin dates back 10 or 15 years, or more, and that during those years complementary applications have been submitted, or there have been resolutions of the TEAC , or sentences of the National Court, etc. which have been modifying the outstanding tax credits. Finally, he reiterated that there had been no conflict in this matter in the past and, in his opinion, there would be none in the future.

Since there are no further interventions, Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor indicates that, in relation to the working group for the Analysis and rationalization of indirect tax burdens , the Director of the Tax Management Department will speak first to comment on the issues of the management area and, subsequently, Mr. Javier Hurtado will present those within the scope of his Department.

Ms. Rosa María Prieto begins her presentation by pointing out that the working group held a meeting on June 2 and that she will highlight the following issues discussed:

  • Regarding the 2021 Corporate Tax campaign, the Deputy Director General of Tax Technique reported at the meeting that this year it had been brought forward and highlighted that:

    • The ministerial order approving the models had been published on May 4;

    • The Corporate Tax manual was available on the Tax Agency's electronic headquarters since May 6;

    • Tax data will be available on June 23.

    As for the model, it was reported that it did not present any major changes in the exercise, beyond some modifications that affected the exemption on dividends and income derived from the transfer of securities (art. 21 LIS ), the deduction to avoid international economic double taxation (art. 32.1 a) LIS ) and the deduction for investments in film productions (arts. 36 and 39 LIS ), among others.

    At the request of the companies, the following matters were discussed:

    • Simplification of model 200: It was reported that the Tax Agency used the information provided in order to improve assistance to the majority of taxpayers, making it easier for them to submit Form 200 and thus encouraging voluntary compliance, while preventing subsequent actions that could lead to requests and regularisations.

    • Deletion of information on directors and holdings: It was reported that this data was requested annually in the Corporate Tax form because the regulations relating to censuses did not require their completion in a census declaration and, therefore, neither did they require their updating.

    • Elimination of the detail of tracking adjustments to the tax base: It was reported that for the Tax Agency this was very relevant information, so its deletion was not planned.

  • As regards the information declarations, the companies had requested that the modifications be made with greater notice so that they could have the information earlier. The representative of the Tax Administration Department explained that many of the informative declarations had a regulatory basis, which made the publication of the ministerial order of the models conditional on the approval of the regulations. He also commented that, in general, they were trying to process all the modifications in a single ministerial order. However, it was noted that the order to modify models 345 and 187 was being processed in advance, since it included relevant modifications. In addition, it was reported that the processing of the order that would include the rest of the modifications would soon begin, apart from the new informative declarations that may have to be approved as a result of the regulatory development of Law 11/2021.

Mr. Javier Hurtado then took the floor to point out that at the working group meeting, representatives of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection explained that the calculation engine for model 220 was intended to design a settlement instrument that would contemplate all scenarios for existing groups of companies and that would be a dynamic and precise tool for settling the tax for entities that paid taxes under the tax group regime, while also incorporating new assistance services. The Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection also highlights that the new system is characterised by its agility in adapting to regulatory changes, its traceability in the monitoring of tax credits, its transparency, by making all the information available in the databases of the Tax Administration known to taxpayers, and its transversality, which means that any body of the Tax Agency will use the same tool in liquidation operations. It was also reported at the meeting that the engine had two basic rules: the proportional distribution and the pre-consolidation limit, although the latter only included a warning about its application rules. Mr. Javier Hurtado adds that, as already mentioned in the plenary session, in response to the objections raised by companies, it has been decided to introduce the possibility of editing the values obtained by applying the proportional distribution rule, including the warning that in such a case the validations of the calculation aid would not be applied.

To conclude his speech, Mr. Javier Hurtado reiterated that the new system is of great importance to the Tax Agency, which is why many resources have been invested in order to obtain a product that is truly a useful calculation engine, both for companies when completing their declarations, and for the Administration when carrying out any management procedure with them.

The Director General then offers the floor to those present in case they wish to make any comments and, since no one intervenes, she gives the floor to Ms. Pilar Jurado Borrego, Director of the Customs and Excise Department, in order for her to comment on the activity of the Excise working group .

Ms. Pilar Jurado comments that the following issues were discussed at the working group meeting held on 24 May:

  • Regarding the Tax on non-reusable plastic packaging, which will come into force on January 1, 2023:

    • The representative of the General Directorate of Taxes, following the structure of Law 7/2022, of April 8, on waste and contaminated soil for a circular economy, made a brief but exhaustive presentation of the Tax, informing attendees about its objective scope, territorial scope, taxable events, taxpayers, accrual, cases of non-taxation, cases of exemption, cases that gave the right to deduction, cases that gave the right to refund, tax violations and general management rules. In particular, in relation to the objective area, he explained that it included primary packaging (designed to constitute a sales unit at the point of sale), secondary packaging (designed to constitute a grouping of a certain number of sales units at the point of sale) and tertiary packaging (designed to facilitate the handling and transport of several sales units or several collective packages). Some companies, for their part, expressed the difficulty of knowing when a plastic was reusable and when it was not, and expressing this in kilograms. Specifically, the Mercadona representative asked whether freezer bags were subject to tax, to which the General Directorate of Taxes replied affirmatively. He added that he was available to answer any questions that the attendees considered appropriate and that a list of frequently asked questions was also being prepared.

    • The representative of the Customs and Excise Department reported on the draft ministerial order regulating, by reference to article 82 of Law 7/2022, the registration in the territorial registry, the self-assessment model (model 592), the refund request model (model A22) and the manner of compliance with the obligation to keep inventory accounts and submit the inventory record book for tax management. In particular, it was explained that intra-Community purchasers were exempt from registering if the quantity of non-recycled plastic acquired in the calendar month did not exceed 5 kilograms, as well as which registered buyers were exempt from submitting the stock register and the self-assessment form in periods in which there was no quota to be paid. For their part, the companies asked whether importers could request a refund of the tax paid in the case of sending the products to the importer outside of Spanish territory in the self-assessment form, to which the answer was negative based on the provisions of articles 80 and 81 of the Law. The question was also asked whether purchasers other than the taxpayer could submit the refund application form, to which, based on the provisions of article 81, the answer was affirmative.

  • Regarding the draft ministerial order approving the procedure for refunding the Hydrocarbon Tax on diesel for professional use, it was reported at the meeting that one of the new features introduced by Royal Decree-Law 6/2022 that affected said procedure was the implementation of monthly frequency in the management of refunds. Ms. Pilar Jurado points out that this measure is already implemented.

  • Regarding the project to modify the Ministerial Order approving markers and tracers for diesel and kerosene, the meeting was informed that the European Commission has adopted Implementing Decision (EU) 2022/197, of 17 January 2022, which establishes a fiscal marker for diesel fuel and kerosene, which is ACCUTRACETM PLUS, allowing member states to use either the old marker or the new one during the transitional period (until January 28, 2022). 2024). The Director of the Customs Department points out that the affected companies are already aware of the modification and that, for its part, the Administration is also preparing to work with the new product and the chemical analyses resulting from the change.

To conclude her speech, Ms. Pilar Jurado reiterated that both the General Directorate of Taxes and the Tax Agency are available to companies to address any queries they may have regarding the Tax on non-recyclable plastic packaging and that the Department of Customs and Excise will try to facilitate its management as far as possible.

The Director General then thanks Ms. Pilar Jurado for her intervention and offers the floor to those present in case they wish to make any comments or questions.

Mr. Francisco Javier Baulenas Setó, representative of SEAT, took the floor to point out that this tax entails enormous complexity in its management and that it will entail a very significant effort for companies. He adds that in his sector they work with thousands of parts and their respective plastic containers, and that getting their numerous suppliers from all over the world to understand that they have to include detailed information about them on the packaging is going to be a very difficult task and one for which, at the moment, they do not have a solution. He says that the level of sophistication has been reached, which makes him miss the old quota distribution system, which he is completely sure would have been more economical for companies. Finally, the SEAT representative asked the Administration for a great deal of flexibility in its implementation, especially in the initial stages.

Next, Mr. Félix Ruiz Madarro, representative of RENAULT, spoke and said that he fully agreed with what Mr. Francisco Javier Baulenas had said. He adds that this is not an expensive tax, but it does establish compliance with a series of obligations that companies do not currently have the capacity to meet.

Ms. Pilar Jurado answers that the Tax Agency has to learn to work with this tax, since it is also a novelty for the organization, so flexibility is taken for granted. He adds that the companies in the Forum are aware of the upcoming changes and have already begun to take them into consideration, but that this tax affects sectors that, at the moment, are not fully aware that it also affects them. The Director of the Customs and Excise Department points out that it is very important for the Tax Agency that the information is known and understood by all affected sectors. Finally, he points out that it should not be forgotten that the tax is part of environmental taxes, and its objective is to promote the recycling of plastic waste in order to reduce its negative impact on the environment.

Since there are no further interventions, Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor gives the floor to the Central Delegate of Large Taxpayers, in order to comment on the activity of the Cooperative Relations working group.

Mr. Manuel Trillo begins his presentation by pointing out that the working group met on June 9 and that the following matters had been included in the agenda at the request of the companies:

  1. Map of the cooperative relationship situation (summary of everything done so far).

  2. Possibility of creating a common framework for cooperative relations within the EU . Theme for the Spanish presidency of the EU .

The Central Delegate reports that the meeting firstly outlined the Tax Agency's vision regarding the cooperative relationship and how the main initiatives launched had worked, such as the constitution of the Forum of Large Companies in 2009, the approval of the Code of Good Tax Practices in 2010, the establishment of a procedure for evaluating compliance with said Code in 2015 and the transparency reports in 2016. Thus, D. Manuel Trillo highlights the following:

  • It was reiterated that for the Tax Agency the cooperative relationship is always bilateral, with as many types of relationships as there are parties involved, which gives rise to there being companies with which there is complete understanding and others with which it is more difficult.

  • The following data were provided to support the progress made by cooperative relationship instruments:

    • Conflicts in large companies in the 2018-2021 period have been reduced by 30% compared to the 2014-2017 period.

    • 80% of the actions of the Central Delegation end in a compliance report and a report with an agreement.

    • There are around 150 members of the Code of Good Tax Practices, with the Central Delegation's census affected by approximately 2,500 taxpayers, including individual entities and groups.

    • The number of pre-valuation agreements is increasing.

    • The number of transparency reports has also been increasing since 2016, reaching 34 in 2020.

The Central Delegate points out that the Tax Agency also carried out a critical analysis and recognised that, despite the progress, there was much room for improvement and growth in terms of cooperative relations.

The Central Delegate continued his presentation by highlighting the following issues:

  • Regarding the Large Business Forum:

    • It was said that when it was created, the intention was to represent companies through members of the Board of Directors, but that this had only happened on one occasion. The Tax Agency has therefore indicated that it would be interesting to have the participation of persons holding positions in the governing bodies on a sporadic basis and for general, non-technical issues.

    • As for the members of the Forum, the Central Delegation proposed analysing the possibility of establishing a rotating system that would allow access to the Forum to companies that were requesting it and for which it was difficult to explain why they could not join, to which the representative of IBERDROLA replied that in such a case a mechanism would have to be designed that would explain very clearly that it was a temporary movement and not an expulsion.

  • As regards the Code of Good Tax Practices, it was commented that the number of entities adhering to it was clearly improvable and that formulas should be sought to increase the number. The representatives of the Tax Agency also pointed out that the Code of Good Tax Practices was approved in 2010 and proposed its review and update, adapting it to new times and circumstances.

  • The Deputy Central Delegate reported on international experiences in the evaluation of cooperative relationship models.

Regarding the last point, Mr. Manuel Trillo comments that, in his opinion, the most feasible instrument for carrying out an evaluation on the matter would be a survey. He therefore proposed to address this issue in the working group, so that consensus could be reached on 20 essential issues on which the members of the Forum would subsequently give their opinion.

On the other hand, the Central Delegate for Large Taxpayers points out that the entities stated during the meeting that they agreed that progress had been made in terms of cooperative relations, although in an uneven manner, since the companies had made a great effort in transparency by adopting very high internal standards, which had undoubtedly also contributed to reducing the percentages of conflict, while the Administration had barely introduced any changes in the verification procedures in recent decades. They also commented that the Tax Agency's progress in the cooperative relationship model was partial, being based on specific people and not so much as a cultural element of the organization in general. For its part, the Central Delegation expressed its disagreement and reiterated that the cooperative relationship was bilateral and that, from the point of view of the Administration, it could be said that, in general, it was working, but that it should also be noted that, in particular, on occasions, not so much. On the other hand, regarding transparency reports, the companies reiterated their request to have the opinion of the Tax Agency on their content prior to the processing of an audit procedure, to which the DCGC replied that the Tax Agency did not have a legal instrument that would allow it to make an assessment of the risk of an entity based on the transparency report submitted. However, their usefulness was highlighted and some cases were cited as examples of the practical application of the reports, where differences had arisen from the analysis of the reports and were ultimately resolved by very specific partial verification procedures.

Mr. Manuel Trillo then commented that, in reference to the second point on the agenda of the meeting, the representative of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection pointed out that in the area of indirect taxation there were already several forums for cooperative relations and that the area for improvement that could be considered would be that relating to direct taxation. However, he stressed that it was essential to start working on the proposal in order to make it more specific, since it was necessary to justify that its creation would be an advantage for the EU .

To conclude his speech, the Central Delegate said that he was convinced that the companies participating in the Forum agreed that the initiatives developed in the area of cooperative relations are working and are useful for everyone, although each of the parties has its own opinion on the efforts that each of the participants is making in this area. He added that it is necessary to continue working to ensure that progress continues to be made in the cooperative model.

Next, Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor thanks Mr. Manuel Trillo for his intervention and offers the floor to those present in case they wish to make any comments.

Since there were no further interventions, the Vice President of the Forum moved on to the next point on the agenda.

5. Projects for the European Presidency 2023

Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor gives the floor to Mr. Marcos Álvarez Suso, Head of the Procedural Support Area of the Financial and Tax Inspection Department, in order to report on the projects in process at European level that could be discussed under the Spanish presidency.

Mr. Marcos Álvarez Suso begins his presentation by commenting that, as is known to all those present, Spain will assume the presidency of the Council of the European Union in the second half of 2023, following the presidencies of France, the Czech Republic and Sweden. He adds that, in addition to being a short presidency because it coincides with the summer period, the Spanish presidency is one of those called "Golden Presidency", that is, the last one before the elections to the European Parliament, for which reason the Commission has already informed Spain that, given the political uncertainty caused by the result of the elections, it will try to promote a significant number of the initiatives that are underway. He also indicates that there are currently numerous projects in the process at the Community level and, given that the countries preceding Spain have their preferences and conditions in relation to them, it is unknown which ones will still be pending in the second half of 2023 or if there will even be new proposals or if any of the current ones will have been discarded. Thus, the Head of the Procedural Support Area indicates that he will make a brief presentation on the files on taxation that are currently being processed, excluding those related to the Customs and Excise area, not because there are no important regulatory projects being processed, since there are, among others, a proposal to modify the directive on energy taxation and a review of the Customs Code, but because they are not in his area of work.

Mr. Marcos Álvarez then comments that, although the European legislative initiative corresponds to the Commission, nevertheless, the country that holds the presidency of the Council of the EU has a certain opportunity to boost those files in which you are most interested. Thus, it reiterates that at this time there is great uncertainty regarding the projects that will be processed under the Spanish presidency of the EU and, with the support of a presentation in power point , outlines the main aspects of some of the proposals that currently exist, clarifying that not in all cases there is a regulatory project from the Commission:

  • In direct taxation:

    • Pillar II: The proposed Directive under discussion aims to guarantee a minimum tax rate (15%) for the global activities of large multinational groups. The debate is about harmonizing a common set of rules on how to calculate this effective tax rate, so that it is applied correctly and consistently across the EU . It has received a strong push under the French presidency, but is currently subject to political blockage.

      Subject to the approval of Pillar II, three initiatives stand out:

      • Annual publication of the effective corporate tax rate of certain large companies with operations in the EU : The proposal will be submitted once the Pillar II Directive has been approved.

      • Recast of the Interest and Fees Directive: The approval of Pillar II could pave the way for the approval of the recast Directive, which has been before the Council since 2011 and whose objective is to make the benefits contemplated therein conditional on the interest being subject to tax in the destination State.

      • Pillar I: There is no European regulatory proposal yet. It gives market jurisdictions the right to tax part of the profits of certain non-resident companies, providing for the reallocation of a portion of these global profits among jurisdictions where the group has customers or users, using an agreed formula.

    • Amendment to the Directive on Administrative Cooperation (DAC 8): Although there is no regulatory proposal yet, this initiative aims to guarantee tax authorities information to identify taxpayers active in new means of exchange, particularly cryptoassets and electronic money.

    • Shell entities : The proposed Directive sets out parameters that will help Member States to detect companies that carry out an economic activity but do not have a minimum substance and are using it to obtain tax advantages. It also provides for the automatic exchange of information and introduces the possibility for one country to request another to carry out a tax audit on a shell entity in order to find out, really, what is behind it. On the other hand, if this proposal does not obtain unanimous agreement, the European Commission has announced that it will present a new legislative initiative at the end of the year that would regulate the profession of tax advisors in terms of the use of this type of entity, although there is still no other additional reference to this proposal.

    • DEBRA: In order to correct the tax-induced debt bias in a coordinated manner throughout the single market, this proposal for a Directive lays down rules to provide, under certain conditions, for the tax deductibility of notional interest on increases in equity and to limit the tax deductibility of excess borrowing costs.

    • Framework for corporate income taxation in Europe (Business in Europe: Framework for Income TaxatioNo BEFIT): sería una norma única del Impuesto de Sociedades para la UE, basada en las características de una base imponible común y una fórmula de prorrateo para la distribución de beneficios entre los estados miembros. Asimismo, si bien no existe todavía una propuesta normativa, esta se basará en el progreso de las discusiones globales en las que estos conceptos están ya presentes, mediante el uso de una fórmula de redistribución parcial de los beneficios en el pilar I, y reglas comunes para el cálculo de la base imponible a efectos de la aplicación del pilar II.

    • Common withholding tax method: The objective of this initiative, which does not yet have a regulatory proposal, would be the introduction of a common system at the level of the EU for withholding at source on dividends or interest payments to non-residents. This will involve the establishment of a system that will allow tax authorities to exchange information and cooperate with each other, as well as improving tax residency certificates for these purposes, thus facilitating and streamlining the management of refunds to non-residents.

    • Code of Conduct: There is a working group dedicated to the study of tax measures that cause harmful tax competition between Member States, as well as to the preparation and updating of the list of non-cooperative third countries and territories, examining defensive measures in a coordinated manner at European Union level.

  • In indirect taxation:

    • The VAT in the digital age: It is the flagship project of the European Union, although there is still no proposal. It is based on:

      • the establishment of a system for the immediate supply of information in real time, that is, something similar to the Spanish SII ;

      • the review of the regime of electronic platforms, harmonizing intermediation in the provision of services, especially in the tourist accommodation and transport sectors;

      • the extension of the one-stop shop to all cases not currently covered.

    • The VAT in the tourism sector: This project is of special interest to Spain, given the importance of the tourism industry in our country. The Commission intends to review the following regimes and aspects related to this sector: the special regime for travel agencies; the regime of refunds to travellers, the regime applicable to duty-free shops and the rules for taxation of passenger transport.

    • The European Commission is considering promoting a dispute resolution mechanism between member states in order to avoid situations of double taxation.

    • Definitive regime in VAT : The Commission's idea is to implement the principle of taxation at destination for intra-Community operations between businesses, maximising the use of a one-stop shop, so that operators can interact with a single Administration, through which they would submit all their self-assessments.

To conclude his presentation, Mr. Marcos Álvarez points out that the Spanish presidency of the EU is an exciting project as a country and that the Spanish Tax Administration hopes to have the contributions of all the entities participating in forum.

The Secretary of State for Finance then offers the floor to those present in case they wish to ask questions or make comments.

First of all, Ms. Begoña García-Rozado asked whether, if Pillar II were not approved during the French presidency, it would not receive a new boost until the Spanish presidency. He also asked whether the technical discussions had been concluded.

Mr Marcos Álvarez Suso replied that, despite all the political caution regarding what is happening in Brussels, the Czech Republic and Sweden have not shown any particular interest in the project.

Mr Jesús Gascón then indicated that, in principle, the technical debate has indeed ended. He also added that the evolution of the project is unpredictable, since, as the representative of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection has pointed out, taking into account all the political caution regarding the work being carried out in Brussels, the negotiations with the countries that oppose the application of Pillar II are not limited exclusively to this project, but go beyond that, so that, although the next presidencies have not shown a special interest in promoting it, if other issues were to be unblocked, it is possible that the veto would be lifted.

Next, Mr. Luis López-Tello took the floor and, after congratulating Mr. Marcos Álvarez on his appointment, commented that he was sure that the exclusion of customs and excise duties from his presentation was not due to the fact that little attention would be paid to them, since Spain would be greatly affected by the work being carried out in this area, such as that dedicated to energy taxation and the border adjustment mechanism.

Mr. Marcos Álvarez replies that the reason for excluding them was simply the fact that the Tax Agency has people who are experts in customs and excise matters.

The Director of the Customs and Excise Department then took the floor and pointed out that the review of energy taxation and the border adjustment mechanism are very complex matters and have an environmental purpose. He adds that, in his opinion, the problem in relation to the application of the Regulation approving the carbon border adjustment mechanism lies in the fact that Spain is an importer and that it will have to add it as another cost, at a time when economic indicators are not at their best. On the other hand, Ms. Pilar Jurado indicates that with regard to the revision of the Customs Code, the European Commission is particularly interested in promoting the simplification of customs procedures, strengthening the role of the trusted operator.

Mr. Jesús Gascón adds that, in addition, another factor that introduces greater complexity into the debates is the proposal to modify the system of own resources of the EU . On the other hand, he points out that, although there is cause for optimism regarding the proposal regarding the taxation of energy going ahead, it must be remembered that, during the last Spanish presidency in 2010, our country also had to report on the viability and expectations regarding a series of files, among which was the directive on the taxation of energy products. At that time it was answered that, although it was very complicated, it was not impossible. He added that 12 years later the debate continues and that, while recognising its importance, it is not clear that progress will be made in the short term. Finally, he points out that there is a good chance that the project will continue in the second half of 2023, when Spain takes over the presidency.

Since there were no further interventions, the Secretary of State for Finance gave way to the seventh point on the agenda, dedicated to "Other considerations, requests and questions" and gave the floor to those present at the meeting.

Mr. Carlos Lázaro, representative of Banco Sabadell, took the floor to thank the company for the warm welcome it has received and to express its satisfaction on behalf of his institution for joining the Large Companies Forum. He adds that, although there was already a certain connection, given Banco Sabadell's adherence to the Code of Good Tax Practices and its participation in the working group for the Analysis of tax regulations and the reduction of conflicts, for his entity it is a reason for satisfaction, shared with all the entities present, to participate in the promotion of the cooperative relationship model, since, without a doubt, it is a very useful tool for the application of the tax system, while providing legal certainty, which is beneficial for society as a whole.

The President of the Forum reiterates his welcome to Banco Sabadell and, given that there are no further requests to speak, he thanks those in attendance for their presence and closes the twenty-fourth plenary session of the Large Companies Forum, saying goodbye until the next meeting.

 

THE TECHNICAL SECRETARY

Mr. IGNACIO FRAISERO ARANGUREN

Vº Bº

THE PRESIDENT OF THE FORUM

Mr. JESUS GASCON CATALAN