Minutes of the session

MINUTES OF THE PLENARY SESSION 2/2022

Minutes of the Plenary Meeting of the Small and Medium-sized Enterprises Forum
held on October 17, 2022

Members representing the Tax Agency

Director of the Tax Management Department

Mrs. Rosa Maria Prieto del Rey

Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection

Mr. Javier Hurtado Puerta

Director of the Collection Department

Mrs. Virginia Muñoz Fernández

Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero Aranguren

Deputy Director General of Applications - Tax Information Technology Department

Mrs. Cristina Alvarez Zazo

Deputy Director General of Studies, Methods and Procedures - Department of Financial and Tax Inspection

Mr. Jose Feliciano Morales Belinchon

Members representing Small and Medium Enterprises

Confederación Española de Organizaciones Empresariales (CEOE)

Head of Tax Department

Mr. Bernardo Soto Siles

Spanish Confederation of Small and Medium-sized Enterprises (CEPYME)

Director of Economics and Sectoral Policies

D. Francisco Vidal Yuguero

Technical Secretariat of the Forum of Small and Medium Enterprises

Deputy Director General of External Communication

Mrs. Maria Dolores Carreno Beltran

The second plenary session of the Small and Medium Enterprises Forum will be held on October 17, 2022, with the following people attending, and in accordance with the following:

AGENDA

1. Opening of the session.

2. Approval of the minutes of the meeting held on February 16, 2022.

3. Summary of the meetings of the Regulatory Analysis and Digitalization Project working group.

4. Support tools for SMEs.

5. Law 18/2022, of September 28, on the creation and growth of companies: It is mandatory for all business owners and professionals to issue, send and receive electronic invoices in their commercial relations with other business owners and professionals (electronic invoicing B2B ).

6. Next call: dates and topics to be discussed.

7. Other considerations, requests and questions.

1. Session opening

The session was opened by Mr. Ignacio Fraisero Aranguren, Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service, who, after welcoming and thanking those attending for their presence at the second session of the Plenary Session of the Small and Medium-sized Enterprises Forum, apologised for the absence of Ms. Soledad Fernández Doctor, Director General of the Tax Agency and President of the Forum, who was prevented from attending the plenary session due to scheduling problems.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero then points out that, as has been mentioned on previous occasions, promoting the cooperative relationship model is one of the main objectives of the Tax Agency. In this regard, he points out that, as is known to all those present, on September 8th the working group on the tax regime for self-employed workers and SMEs was established, coordinated by the Institute of Fiscal Studies, and which includes the participation of the Tax Agency, the General Directorate of Taxes, trade union organizations and associations representing groups of SMEs and self-employed workers. The Working Group is also expected to meet at the end of October and requests that entities submit to the Working Group Secretariat any issues they consider appropriate to address at the meeting.

The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service then comments that in the plenary session, after approving, where appropriate, the minutes of the previous meeting, the representatives of the Departments of Financial and Tax Inspection, Tax Management and Collection will present the main issues addressed in the meetings of the working group on Regulatory Analysis and Digitalization Project. In addition, Mr. Ignacio Fraisero adds that a brief presentation will be made on the virtual support tools available to SMEs, as well as on the mandatory electronic invoicing established in Law 18/2022.

2. Approval of the minutes of the meeting held on February 16, 2022

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero gives the floor to Ms. Mª Dolores Carreño Beltrán, Deputy Director General of External Communication of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service and Technical Secretary of this Forum, who states that the minutes of the first plenary session were sent to the representatives of small and medium-sized companies prior to this meeting, and that no comments were received; He adds that if there were none at this time, it would be definitively approved. Since no comments were made, the minutes of the first plenary session held on 16 February 2022 are hereby approved. It also states that the minutes will be published on the Tax Agency's website in the section dedicated to this Forum.

3. Summary of the meetings of the Regulatory Analysis and Digitalisation Project Working Group

In relation to this point of the agenda, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service points out that the working group has met on two occasions, on 11 May and 8 July, and that these meetings have been held jointly with the member entities of the Forum of Federations and Associations of Self-Employed Workers. He added that the following issues were discussed at the meetings, among others: the processing status of the Royal Decree approving the regulation establishing the requirements that must be adopted by the computer or electronic systems and programs that support the billing processes of entrepreneurs and professionals, and the standardization of billing record formats, improvements in the assistance tools in the completion of Corporate Tax returns and the new collection functionality incorporated into the app of the Tax Agency to streamline the request for deferrals, consultation and payment of debts.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero then gives the floor to Mr. Javier Hurtado Puerta, Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection, so that he can comment on the activity of the working group in his Department's area.

Mr. Javier Hurtado begins his speech by pointing out that at the meeting held on May 11, a fairly extensive presentation was made on the status of the Royal Decree approving the regulation establishing the requirements to be adopted by computer or electronic systems and programs that support the billing processes of entrepreneurs and professionals, and the standardization of billing record formats , highlighting that the three pillars on which the project was based were the following:

1. Fight against tax fraud: The regulatory project has its origin in the modifications that Law 11/2021, in compliance with a mandate included in component 27 of the Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan, introduced in Law 58/2003, of December 17, General Tax Law, in order to eradicate fraud due to the use of software for suppression and manipulation of sales.

2. Generating an interoperability capacity through the standardization of billing record formats, so that one company can interact in an agile way with another or with entities from other sectors, such as the financial sector.

3. Administrative simplification: The possibility of sending invoices voluntarily and automatically through the use of "Verifiable invoice issuing systems" or "VERI*FACTU systems" is established, in which case, in order to comply with the security requirements, it would not be necessary to implement the digital signature. Voluntary and simultaneous submission of invoices could be an alternative to Form 347 in the future as a way of informing the Administration about invoicing, simplifying the tax settlement process. There is also the option of adopting a system that does not automatically send the billing records to the Tax Agency, in which case the security requirements must be met by the system itself and with a higher level of rigor.

Mr. Javier Hurtado also comments that the general lines of the project were outlined at the meeting:

• Universality, with some exceptions (those subject to the Immediate Information Supply system, certain operations that are taxed under the special regime for agriculture, livestock and fishing of VAT , etc.).

• Its purpose is to regulate the way in which computer billing systems must comply with the legal requirements of integrity, conservation, accessibility, legibility, traceability and inalterability of records.

• The following safety requirements are determined:

  • Regulates the minimum content of the invoice registration file.

  • Establish a system of hash chained.

  • Includes the electronic signature of the issuing system (except for "VERI*FACTU" systems).

• Computer systems must have the capacity to simultaneously or later forward billing records.

• It introduces the possibility for the person receiving an invoice to participate in the verification of the quality and integrity of their supplier's system, allowing them to compare the invoice received in the electronic headquarters of the Tax Agency.

• It establishes that computer systems used to comply with the obligations contained in the Regulation must be accompanied by a formally recorded declaration of responsibility, issued by the producer, manufacturer or developer thereof, which ensures their commitment that the legally established requirements are met.

On the other hand, the Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection points out that, after the hearing and public information process, some modifications were introduced in the Regulation, and, as regards the deadlines, the following is provided:

• For software developers and manufacturers: They must have them on the market within 9 months from the publication in the BOE of the ministerial order issued in development of the Regulation.

• For taxpayers: must have operational computer systems adapted to the requirements established in the Regulation as of July 1, 2024.

To conclude his presentation on the Billing Regulations, Mr. Javier Hurtado indicates that at this time the draft Royal Decree is pending a report from the Council of State, so it is not possible to determine the date of entry into force.

Next, regarding the second meeting of the working group, the Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection comments that his Department's intervention was briefer, limiting itself to pointing out some aspects of Law 11/2021 on measures to prevent and combat tax fraud that were still pending regulatory development. Thus, in relation to the modifications that were being processed in the General Regulation of the actions and procedures of tax management and inspection and development of the common rules of the procedures for the application of taxes, approved by Royal Decree 1065/2007, of July 27, reference was made to the new way of calculating late payment interest, to entries into the constitutionally protected domicile and to the creation of the Registry of Extractors of fiscal warehouses of products included in the objective scope of the Tax on Hydrocarbons. Likewise, in relation to this last modification, the importance that the Registry had for the Tax Agency was highlighted, since organized fraud in the distribution of diesel and gasoline was one of the most important quantitatively and the measure was intended to prevent that the benefits of the regime were used fraudulently to make purchases exempt from VAT under the regime, with accrual of the tax at exit, but without payment of the same to the Public Treasury.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero then thanks the Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection for his presentation and gives the floor to Ms. Rosa Mª Prieto del Rey, Director of the Department of Tax Management, so that she may present the issues discussed by the working group in her Department's area.

Ms. Rosa María Prieto points out that at the meeting held on 8 July, the following issues in the area of tax management were discussed, among others:

• Advances in WEB Societies: The expansion of data made available to taxpayers and improvements in their quality were highlighted. In addition, the various tools to help SMEs with this tax were presented and a series of utilities were highlighted, such as the table of corrections to the accounting result, the filing notices or the incorporation into the form, albeit with certain limitations, of the negative tax bases following a system. FIFO .

• Rules in process: The draft ministerial orders relating to information declarations were discussed and, with regard to the modifications provided for in Royal Decree 1065/2007, of 27 July, a general review was made, especially of those planned in the area of censuses.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero then thanked the Director of the Tax Management Department for her intervention and gave the floor to Ms. Virginia Muñoz Fernández, the new Director of the Collection Department, so that she could comment on the issues discussed within the scope of her Department.

Ms. Virginia Muñoz points out that at the meeting of the working group it was mentioned that on July 4th the app The Tax Agency has introduced a new feature for the most in-demand procedures in the area of collection, such as requests for deferrals and installments, debt consultation and payment, as well as seizure proceedings. It was indicated that it was primarily aimed at individuals and could be accessed by identifying oneself with the Cl@ve system. It was also noted that the functionality had a direct link to virtual assistants for tax collection (calculators for payment terms, interest and the amount of salary that could be seized), and that taxpayer identification was not required to use them. Finally, it was added that these procedures and services were also available on the Tax Agency's electronic headquarters.

The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service then thanks the Director of the Collection Department for her presentation and offers the floor to those in attendance in case they wish to ask any questions or comment on any matter.

First, Mr. Bernardo Soto Siles, representative of the Spanish Confederation of Business Organizations (CEOE), takes the floor to comment on the new functionalities incorporated into the app of the Tax Agency are an improvement in it that will undoubtedly be very useful.

Next, Mr. Francisco Vidal Yuguero, representative of the Spanish Confederation of Small and Medium Enterprises (CEPYME), intervenes to thank the simplification introduced in the access to the usual procedures of the collection area with its inclusion in the app of the Tax Agency. On the other hand, he points out that at CEPYME they are concerned about the issue of electronic invoicing as they consider that its implementation will entail a great effort and a significant cost. He added that of the approximately 65,000 companies in Segment I (between 10 and 49 employees) that have requested aid from the Digital Kit, so far, only around 20,000 have obtained the resources and that, in addition, there were many cases of resignation due to the lack of capacity of companies to be able to make the necessary adaptations. The programme's aid is insufficient to carry out the intended digital transformation and should be increased and combined with other direct aid.

Mr. Ignacio Fraisero replied that this is undoubtedly an issue that concerns both SMEs and the Administration, since financing is important.

Since there were no further interventions, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service moved on to the next point on the agenda and gave the floor to the Director of the Tax Management Department.

4. Support tools for SMEs

Ms. Rosa María Prieto, who used a power point presentation in her presentation, first indicated that the Tax Agency has made a series of information and assistance services available to taxpayers in order to facilitate compliance with their tax obligations. In this regard, it is noted that, via the Internet, in the electronic headquarters of the Tax Agency, one can access extensive information on the different taxes, virtual assistance tools, chats ADI , the written consultation service (INFOMA+), the INFORMA program, etc. He adds that guides, “practical manuals” are also prepared ( Personal Income Tax , Wealth Tax, Corporate Tax, VAT , etc.), sections frequently asked questions, etc. Thus, it indicates that, regarding the virtual tax information services provided by the Tax Agency, the main tools available to SMEs, as well as their characteristics, are the following:

• Virtual Assistants: Based on artificial intelligence, they guide the user through simple tasks, offering specific responses in real time, which contributes to self-management. Their advantage is that they are available 365 days a year, 24 hours a day. They also provide greater certainty and legal security by offering the same response to all users who raise the same question (unity of criteria). Its main advantages are:

  • The analysis of the questions asked allows us to quickly and efficiently identify the topics that generate the most doubts in order to be able to provide an immediate response of general scope.

  • The tax professional and the taxpayer receive an immediate response to their query.

  • Continuous improvement of accessibility to administrative procedures in order to facilitate the procedures for taxpayers and professionals.

  • The tools are designed for use by citizens, tax professionals and tax administration officials.

  • Virtual assistants in IVA (AVIVA) and in SII (AVSII) provide a personalized automatic response, reinforcing legal certainty, although the information provided It is not binding, but it would avoid a penalty for those taxpayers who had adapted their behavior based on the response provided. They require electronic identification for their use and the responses are incorporated into the user's electronic file. In addition, the answers include links to other applications and regulations in order to provide comprehensive information. As for its operation, at the end of the conversation with the virtual assistant the user is offered the possibility of evaluating it. If the user has obtained the information he or she needs, he or she may obtain a written copy of the information which, after electronic identification of the user, is incorporated into his or her electronic file and sent to him or her by email. If, on the other hand, you do not obtain the information you need, the following alternatives are offered to you:

    • Information +: The taxpayer may register his query in writing in the application. It is available for VAT , SII and Census issues. Currently, the maximum monthly number of queries is five. The service can also be used by tax professionals, although it requires authorization.
    • Chat ADI : A chat is opened with a specialist to resolve your query at that moment. Opening hours are Monday to Friday, 9:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m.

• Informants: They do not use artificial intelligence. They guide the user through the different options offered based on their selections. Allows you to obtain a copy in PDF  of the answer and can be complemented with assistance through the ADI . The main virtual informants are:

  • In VAT : the Locator for delivery of goods, the Locator for provision of services, the Real Estate Qualifier, etc.

  • In Census: the Census Informant and the Economic Activity Searcher and their tax obligations.

Ms. Rosa María Prieto then points out that the following assistance services for preparing tax returns can be accessed through the electronic headquarters of the Tax Agency:

• Comprehensive Digital Assistance Administrations: Its main characteristics are the following:

  • They provide personalized, non-face-to-face information and assistance services that are usually offered in a physical office of the Tax Agency. Its opening hours, as already indicated, are Monday to Friday, from 9:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m.

  • Multichannel: They use the different telematic tools that current technology allows (chats, phone calls, video calls, etc.).

  • The ADI are attended by officials specialized in each subject who, supported by ad hoc computer tools, allow assistance to be streamlined and optimized.

  • The service is available for the following models:

    • VAT : models 303, 390 and 952.
    • Census: models 030, 036 and 037.
    • Contributors in modules: models 303 and 131.
    • E-commerce: models 035 and 369.

• PRE 303: Available to all taxpayers, different options are offered depending on their profile. Its features include:

  • Census window VAT : It shows the identification boxes filled in, allowing the taxpayer to update, correct or complete the data that has an impact on the settlement.

  • Portfolio of shares to be offset: table with information on the amounts to be offset from previous periods, broken down by fiscal years and generation periods, amounts applied and pending application.

  • Supplementary self-assessment: When this option is selected, the system completes, in cases where the data is available, the amount and proof number of the self-assessment to be completed.

  • All entrepreneurs will be able to obtain a PRE 303 with the settlement data based on the information in their VAT Registration Books in a standardized electronic format (import of Books).

• WEB Societies:

  • It was launched for the 2019 financial year declaration. Information was provided on 72 concepts, including: the data entered by the taxpayer in other forms (information on administrators, items pending application, etc.), the data provided by third parties (ownership of real estate, income from movable capital, etc.), as well as other information held by the Tax Agency (penalties, surcharges, etc.).

  • For the 2020 financial year, new categories were added, such as income imputed to SII and to form 347. The most important new feature was the incorporation of the possibility of downloading part of the tax data in the WEB Companies form.

  • In 2021, new utilities have been incorporated:

    • information relating to items pending application at the beginning of the financial year of adjustments to the accounting result;
    • the calculation of the negative tax bases pending application;
    • the generation of a series of warnings when filing the declaration.

The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service then opened the session for interventions.

Mr. Francisco Vidal comments that virtual tools are undoubtedly very useful, but that there is a segment of taxpayers for whom face-to-face assistance is very necessary, since they do not know how to use all these virtual services. He adds that the characteristics of rural areas must also be taken into account.

Ms. Rosa María Prieto answers that virtual services do not replace face-to-face services, but rather complement them.

Mr Bernardo Soto points out that he agrees with the usefulness of virtual tools, since they allow, especially in basic matters, to relieve the workload of face-to-face services. On the other hand, he indicates that with regard to Corporate Tax, the transparency of information by the Administration is a fundamental aid when completing the declaration.

Then, since no other interventions were made, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service gave way to the next point on the agenda and gave the floor to Mr. Javier Hurtado.

5. Law 18/2022, of September 28, on the creation and growth of companies: It is mandatory for all business owners and professionals to issue, send and receive electronic invoices in their business relationships with other business owners and professionals (electronic invoicing B2B )

The Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection begins his presentation by pointing out that Law 18/2022 represents a very significant change in invoicing obligations, since it provides that, after the entry into force of the Law and the passage of the established transitional periods, the obligation of electronic invoicing B2B be universal. He adds that the explanatory statement sets out the two objectives that are intended to be achieved: provide greater efficiency to business traffic and facilitate access to information on payment terms. On the other hand, Mr. Javier Hurtado indicates that the electronic invoice is not something new, but its universality and the requirements established in the Law are. Thus, it points out that electronic invoicing in Spain has gone through different stages which, in turn, allow for the following classifications:

• By its format:

  • Electronic invoice with unstructured format: currently in force, since there is no rule that requires a certain structure in the billing records.

  • Electronic invoice with structured format:

    • Private or agreed upon structured format between sender and receiver: widely used by large distributors (for example, automobiles).
    • Standard and interoperable public structured format ( B2G ).

• For its recipients:

  • Electronic invoice B2G : Law 25/2013, promoting electronic invoicing in the public sector, establishes that all public sector entities, whether local, regional or state, receive their invoices through Facturae, with some exceptions (individuals and transactions with an amount of up to 5,000 euros).

  • Electronic invoice B2B : Its obligation is established in Law 18/2022, on the creation and growth of companies and the consent of the recipient is not necessary. In addition, invoice payment statuses must be included.

  • Electronic invoice B2C : Law 56/2007 on Measures to Promote the Information Society requires this to be mandatory for certain issuers and provided that there is consent from the recipient.

Mr. Javier Hurtado continues his presentation by commenting that Law 18/2022 does not have a fiscal purpose, since it has been promoted by the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation in compliance with the Recovery, Transformation and Resilience Plan, one of its objectives being the modernization of the business sector, especially SMEs and self-employed workers, by promoting their digitalization, as well as reducing late payments; He adds that the Law addresses electronic invoicing in its article 12, although it also appears in other sections of its articles. Thus, the Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection points out that he will highlight and comment on the following provisions of the Law:

• Universality: All entrepreneurs and professionals must issue, send and receive electronic invoices in their commercial relations with other entrepreneurs and professionals.

• It establishes that the invoice must include information on the payment status: This is a new element that is not included in the regulations regarding billing obligations, but which the Law considers a key element in order to reduce commercial late payment. For the Tax Agency, this is an element whose technical and regulatory development is highly complex, since it involves converting the invoice into a dynamic element that is monitored until payment.

• It indicates that the recipient of the invoice may not force the issuer to use a predetermined electronic invoicing solution, platform or service provider. With this measure, the Law aims to avoid situations of market dominance by large operators.

• It provides that technological solutions and platforms offered by companies providing electronic invoicing services to entrepreneurs and professionals must guarantee their free interconnection and interoperability, which does not necessarily imply that the electronic invoicing service provided by the provider must also be free. Mr. Javier Hurtado adds that for the Tax Agency to develop an electronic invoicing service that takes into account all the profiles that make up the census of taxpayers would be a very complex task, the implementation of which, in principle, could not be prepared in the short term; However, the possibility of developing an alternative electronic invoicing system for micro-enterprises that issue a very small number of invoices is being studied. He also said that he believes the cost of billing services will become cheaper as they become more widespread.

• It indicates that electronic invoices must comply, in all cases, with the provisions of the specific regulations on invoicing and that the computer systems and programs that manage the invoicing and storage processes of electronic invoices must comply with the requirements referred to in article 29.2.j) of Law 58/2003, General Tax Law, and its regulatory development. Thus, the technical solutions adopted in compliance with the provisions of Law 18/2022 must necessarily take into account and be combined with the measures included in the draft Royal Decree approving the regulation establishing the requirements that must be adopted by computer or electronic systems and programs that support the billing processes of entrepreneurs and professionals, discussed in the third point of the agenda.

• Final Provision 7 authorizes the Government to develop the regulations for the provisions of the Law and, in relation to article 12, indicates that the Ministries of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation and of Finance and Civil Service, within the scope of their powers, will determine the technical and information requirements to be included in the electronic invoice for the purposes of verifying the payment date and obtaining the average payment periods, the minimum interoperability requirements between providers of technological solutions for electronic invoices, and the security, control and standardization requirements of the devices and computer systems that generate the documents. The deadline established for regulatory development is six months. Likewise, it provides that the development will be carried out accepting as valid, at least, the list of syntax contained in the Implementing Decision (EU) 2017/1870 of the Commission, of October 16, 2017, on the publication of the reference of the European standard on electronic invoicing and the list of its syntaxes in accordance with Directive 2014/55/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council [XML CEFAT/UN (SCRDM – CII), UBL – ISO/IEC 19845:2015 and EDIFACT].

• Regarding its entry into force:

  • For entrepreneurs and professionals with a turnover of more than 8 million euros: one year from the approval of the regulatory development;

  • for the rest: 2 years.

Mr. Javier Hurtado then comments on the main characteristics of the two options in terms of billing systems:

• Through a standard format EDI  for the direct exchange of information between two organizations electronically (point-to-point): The invoice (or any other document) is transmitted from the issuer's equipment, previously transformed to EDI format, to the receiver's equipment, where it is decoded and received.

• Through platforms provided by billing service providers: It follows the French model where the platform itself serves as a transmitter and receiver of information. A node platform (Chorus) is also contemplated, which can be used by suppliers or clients who, due to their characteristics, simply require minimum services that allow them to comply with legal requirements. With the Chorus platform, the transmission of information to the Administration is automatic. On the other hand, in the Italian model the platform is provided by the tax authority, which acts as a visa authority for the invoices.

Finally, the Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection points out that, in his opinion, Law 18/2022 marks a milestone in terms of invoicing, with a significant impact from a fiscal point of view, as well as for companies.

The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service thanks Mr. Javier Hurtado for his presentation and comments that Law 18/2022 represents a challenge for everyone. He added that the Ministry of Finance and Public Administration will collaborate with the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation so that the regulatory development can provide consensual solutions to all the issues raised by the Law.

Next, Mr. Ignacio Fraisero offers the floor to those present.

First, Mr. Bernardo Soto intervenes to ask whether everything has to go through the platforms, to which Mr. Javier Hurtado responds that this issue is not specified in the Law, although it seems that the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation wants to promote a model similar to the French one.

Mr. Bernardo Soto then reports that at the end of September they held a meeting with representatives of the General Directorate of Economic Policy of the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation, in order to discuss the responses they had received from their associates in relation to a series of questions that the Ministry had provided them with at a previous meeting. He pointed out that the Confederation had not been able to offer a common position on several of the questions, as very different answers had been received from the members. On the other hand, at the meeting, the representatives of the Ministry reported that the deadline for the regulatory development was six months, so the timeframes for public participation were going to be minimal, although an informal communication channel would be maintained throughout the process. The representative of CEOE adds that the entities representing SMEs requested the creation of a billing forum, similar to those established for the implementation of FACe and FACeB2B, but the Ministry informed them that due to the deadlines they saw it as complicated, although they would study it. The Directorate General for Economic Policy, for its part, insisted that reducing commercial late payments was a key element and, as regards payment information, it reiterated that it was not a fiscal measure and that it was considering enabling the coexistence of different models, which could fall on financial institutions or the issuer of the invoices. The Ministry also stated that it was preparing a report with all the contributions collected from different areas and that it would be sent to the representatives of SMEs. Mr. Bernardo Soto comments that they have not received it yet. On the other hand, he reports that tomorrow they will hold a meeting of the electronic invoicing working group at the CEOE , where they will try to unify, as far as possible, the proposals of the associates on what should be done to solve all these problems and, in addition, they will be informed about what was discussed in the plenary session. Finally, he points out that at the meeting with the General Directorate he understood that the use of a platform would not be mandatory, but rather that a point-to-point system was being considered. He added that there was no mention of the existence of a node or platform for the Administration in the services of the Tax Agency.

Mr Javier Hurtado reiterates that it is not explicitly stated, but that, in his opinion, the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation is in favour of a system similar to the French model, which, on the other hand, is not yet in force.

Mr. Bernardo Soto takes the floor again to indicate that the ideal would be that, on the one hand, this regulatory development is perfectly integrated and combined with the draft Royal Decree discussed in the third point of the agenda and, on the other hand, that the information on the payment status of the invoice does not impose an exorbitant burden on the person who will ultimately be its beneficiary, the businessman, since he is the one who has the greatest interest in reducing late payments.

The Director of the Department of Financial and Tax Inspection comments that, in relation to information on payment statuses, it might be more convenient to limit it to significant operations or to companies that have a certain control in the market, that is, that can condition the payment and collection of invoices, but that the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation is in favor of a universal model and that the information be included in all invoices so that global and statistical monitoring can be done.

Mr. Bernardo Soto indicates that there are aspects that need to be reviewed and corrected since reporting on payment statuses can influence them. He adds that, on the other hand, when the Immediate Information Supply system was implemented, there was a fairly long period of time and that the problem in this case is, above all, that the adaptation periods are short.

Mr. Francisco Vidal then intervenes to point out that information on late payments is already available, since, for example, the Bank of Spain is processing data from 2020 in a fairly broad and well-prepared way on a sample, in his opinion, sufficiently representative, of 465,000 companies; He added that it also has not only the data from the Integrated Central Balance Sheet Survey, but also earlier quarterly surveys, which are quite detailed and also provide information on trends. In addition, the data is integrated with information from other bodies such as the Commercial Registry. The Bank of Spain has certain information on the evolution of commercial credit, although it understands that this information is complex to obtain since the Bank of Spain has to review the data provided; However, it reiterates that information is available and that, perhaps, by selecting an ad hoc sample detailed data on commercial late payment could be obtained. On the other hand, he indicates that he has a report prepared by a company of CESCE that also provides information on commercial credits, although it does not resolve the doubts regarding the exact level of late payments and the average payment periods agreed, since going into detail in this matter is a job that is sometimes overwhelming and that, in his opinion, electronic invoicing platforms are going to have to face a very complex task. Finally, he said that bad debts are clearly a serious problem that is of great concern to SMEs, but as everyone present knows, the increase in commercial credit is cyclical and in inflationary times it is a simple way of obtaining financing, especially if one is going through a difficult situation. He also reiterated that it is necessary to work with a sample of companies that will allow information to be obtained earlier, but without the effort itself implying an unaffordable cost and burden.

Mr. Javier Hurtado comments that the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Digital Transformation is aware of the data provided by the Bank of Spain and reiterates that, however, it seems that it prefers to have universal information, provided by the companies themselves.

Next, Mr. Bernardo Soto takes the floor to indicate that greater simplicity and ease in the process of adapting to the new electronic invoicing systems and of these in themselves will redound to the benefit of all, since although for advisors and managers, as tax professionals that they are, there will not be major problems of adaptation no matter how complex the process is, as well as for large companies, where the cost will be minimal, this is not the case for a significant part of small and medium-sized companies that currently have, quite simply, a small internal department, which in many cases consists of a single person who, without being very expert, deals with accounting and invoicing, and who will be forced to contract a consultant to provide these services.

Then, since there were no further interventions, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service gave way to the sixth point on the agenda.

6. Next call: dates and subjects to deal with

In relation to this point of the agenda, Mr. Ignacio Fraisero comments that, as all those present know, the Rules of Operation of the Forum establish the holding of two plenary meetings per year. He added that, however, it has been noted that sometimes the content of the sessions coincides with that of the plenary meetings of the Forum of Federations and Associations of Self-Employed Workers. Mr. Ignacio Fraisero points out that, for this reason, the Tax Agency proposes to the representatives of small and medium-sized companies to modify said Operating Rules so as to include the possibility of holding joint plenary sessions of both Forums, when the subject matter so advises. On the other hand, the Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service indicates that, given that the work of the Forum is mainly carried out in working groups, a modification of the rules is also proposed to establish the holding of a plenary meeting per year as obligatory, adding the possibility that the Plenary may be convened on more occasions if one of the parties considers it convenient. The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service also announced that this proposal will also be forwarded to the representatives of self-employed workers. Finally, he announced that the Technical Secretariat would submit a proposal to modify the Operating Rules so that representatives of small and medium-sized enterprises could analyse it and provide their observations and comments.

7. Other considerations, requests and questions

The Director of the Planning and Institutional Relations Service then offered the floor to those present at the meeting in case they wished to make any comments and, since no one intervened, he thanked everyone for their attendance and closed the second plenary session of the Small and Medium-sized Enterprises Forum.